The Brad Weisman Show
The Brad Weisman Show
Preferred Equity vs Common Equity Opportunities w/ Darin Davis
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Unlock the secrets of real estate investing with Darin Davis, the brilliant founder of Club Capital. Discover how Darin transitioned from managing single-family rental homes to becoming a syndication expert, making high-stakes investing accessible even for beginners. Learn what terms like Preferred Equity and Common Equity mean and how you can start small, raise funds incrementally, and gain invaluable insights from mentors. Darin's real-world examples and practical advice will inspire you to take your first steps into the world of real estate with confidence.
Stay ahead of the curve as we discuss the big picture of commercial real estate trends, including the challenges developers face with maturing construction loans and climbing interest rates. With $600 billion in multifamily debt maturing soon, find out how positioning yourself with rescue capital can turn these challenges into opportunities. We also delve into alternative investment strategies like Preferred Equity, which offers higher returns and prioritized payouts. Explore the potential for repurposing commercial spaces into residential units, especially in areas with older infrastructure. Don't miss this chance to glean expert strategies and actionable tips for navigating the ever-changing real estate landscape. #bradweisman #preferredequity #DarinDavis #commonequity #tbws2024 #thebradweismanshow
"This is such an eye opening episode into the world of real estate investing on a whole different level. Darin explains the differences between Common Equity and Preferred Equity, and that you don't need to be a millionaire to invest in multi million dollar properties. Get in on a piece of the action for a fraction of the costs that you think. Don't miss it!" - Brad Weisman
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Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show (formerly known as Real Estate and YOU), where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! 🎙️ Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! 🏡🌟 #TheBradWeismanShow #RealEstateRealLife #realestateandyou
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from real estate to real life and everything in between the brad weisman show and now your host, brad weisman.
Speaker 2:All right, we are back. We got a good show on on record here. I'll tell you what we do a really good show coming up. We have a guy that I've been talking to uh, for quite some time. He's supposed to be on the show. One time it didn't work work out for both of us and this time he's back.
Speaker 2:It's an interesting topic. A lot of times people look at investing as being something that is very complicated or is something that, wow, only the people making gazillions of dollars have the ability to do, and I'm talking investing in big real estate purchases. You'll hear the term syndication getting thrown around. You'll hear preferred equity, common equity and these words are not everyday words, they're not everyday phrases, and sometimes it just scares us and we're like, oh, I don't think I can do that. But he's going to tell us some ways that we can do that. Everybody that's watching the show it could build their life around making passive income, and without any delay, I'm going to bring him on. His name is Darren Davis. He's the founder of Club Capital. Darren, how are you doing?
Speaker 1:Hello Brad, I'm great Thanks for having me on today.
Speaker 2:Absolutely there for a little bit. It was getting a little sketchy. We weren't sure if this was going to work. Technology was not listening to us.
Speaker 1:No, and I think that's where I need to hire high school kids to hold my hand when I start doing anything technology-wise.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right. So I'm just going to read a little bit about your bio so people know a little bit about who you are, and then we'll start really talking about the equity positions and real estate and all these different things that are really interesting to me. So his name is Darren Davis, an industry leader, real estate entrepreneur, founder of Club Capital. He's got two decades of industry leadership, excels in navigating market shifts, guiding investors to exceptional returns. Whether you're a novice or experienced. Darren is ready to share insights on becoming a savvy, passive investor.
Speaker 2:In 2023,. He launched the Never Quit Initiative, educating young adults on private equity and active and passive cash flow for financial stability we're now going to talk about. He also says these mottos of education to execution, one of his mottos. Another motto is start now. Start small, but just get started. I love that. Joining on this insightful journey is Darren Darren. Thanks so much for being here. Once again. You have a lot of things here to talk about, and one of the things I just want to jump into is some of the terms. Like you know, preferred equity and common equity and these investments that we hear about in syndication. You know these are terms that I think when people hear them, they get a little nervous and they think it's not, this is not something they can get involved in. Tell me how you? How do you jump that hurdle?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really well and I'm going to give you my life experience. Yeah, and then fast forward to today.
Speaker 1:I probably did like everybody else uh, this is in 2000, 2001 I went out and bought a couple single family rental homes, okay, and found out that could be painful yeah just the time it took to manage them and then I said there's got to be a better way Guys are doing this and then I realized I kind of learned what a syndication was and at first, when I heard the word, I thought, well, I'm not part of the mafia, I don't need to be doing something wrong. But I quickly learned that it was just where you had a group of like-minded people that would pool money together and use that leverage to go out and buy an asset that could perform better with less effort. You know you get the bigger. You know the bigger the asset that you have. You know the margins are about the same, but it's larger, so you're earning more. So I went down that syndication model and I was.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you I was very fortunate that I had a guy here in town that was willing to take me on and teach me, because I mean, I was reading books about it. I don't know what to do here and I sure enough, I started off pulling my first deal I did with him. I raised three hundred and fifty thousand dollars and we came into his syndication model and I got to see how the whole thing worked and why. I think that's really important. We'll talk about this, you know, in this show.
Speaker 1:But I was able to get in small. I had a mentor, there was already a structure and I was able to learn from him and we ended up doing 13 of those I did, and every time I did it it went from 350 to 500 to 750 and that was like literally friends and family. I remember the first few phone calls I made. I'm calling, uh, you know, my cousin and my best friend and my colleagues at work that I knew you know had had some, uh, some money that they didn't want to get actively involved in anything. They wanted to work off the trust.
Speaker 2:So that's the whole syndication model but are we talking large amounts of like you're piecing together $350,000 or whatever you're doing? Are we talking there's three people that came up with that money, or are we talking there's 20 people that came out?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no. Those first few deals we did. I mean I was, I was doing high fives and somebody gave me 10,000.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, okay, so this is doable. Gave me 10,000. Oh wow, okay, so this is doable.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, you know, um, you know, 350,000, uh, that was probably 15 to 16 investors. Uh, you know, and, and, and I didn't want anybody, you know, and I didn't portray myself as some genius or that I had all this knowledge and I had all this experience. I didn't, you know. But I, you know what, when you said at the beginning of the show, just get started, start small, get started. You just you've got to take that first step. I mean, if you haven't experienced the firsthand knowledge and some pain points, you're never going to grow. And just, I mean, we all know that in everything we do in life. But these were really small, little chunks of money. So, and I didn't, I'll tell you one thing really small little chunks of money. So, and I didn't.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you one thing I didn't make a lot of money on those first five or six that I did. I was getting an education, I was getting mentored, I was proving my worth to the investors that I had, so that they would go out on my behalf and say, hey, I know this guy, darren Davis, here's what he's doing, here's what he's done. And I made sure that first, you know, 50 investors were just white glove treatment, right and that that more or less launched me on my own in 2007. So I had that five or six years where I was working with another guy and doing some small projects on my own very small, but in 2007, 2008, that's when I started my own syndication and we started raising real money, and that was an interesting time in real estate.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, so you could buy. Things were reduced.
Speaker 1:No, I was the guy that everybody wanted to get the asset from. Oh okay, I wasn't on the side of buying, I was on the side of God. This is happening to me.
Speaker 2:In 2008,. I'll tell you, I always say, if anybody was in real estate, which I was heavily and dude, it was tough. No-transcript, rough time story well, that's character building, though, and you learned though I bet you learned a lot during that period.
Speaker 1:Oh, I can't tell you enough that trigger point in 2008 with that asset, was our first multi-family development.
Speaker 2:I had no choice but to learn I got a guy asked me the other day he goes well, how did you underwrite that?
Speaker 1:I said underwrite. I said I'm trying to float above water. I got a gun to my head. Are you kidding me? We're not underwriting anything, we're scrambling. But we were able to put it together. We got very resourceful. We worked with the city of Austin. We worked with HUD. I worked with a couple of my partners. I remember one of my partners I love the guy. I called a meeting because I had to tell them that things were not looking good and he sat in the meeting. We're in this conference and we sat in the meeting and he came in with a triple scotch on his own. He sat down and I went through about an hour presentation. At the end of the meeting, all he said to me he said Darren. I said yes. He said don't lose my effing money.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's a little rough.
Speaker 1:I know, and I money. Oh man, that's a little rough, I know. And I and the other guys were sitting there and they all said, yeah, me too, me too yeah, me too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, without the scotch. Obviously they didn't have the scotch you know they didn't.
Speaker 1:He was the only one. He came in, just like I don't care what you're gonna say, because I have no idea what you're saying just yeah, you know just and the person putting together, so there's.
Speaker 2:So there's the. There's the person putting together. So you were the person putting together. So there's the person putting together. So you were the person that was sitting there bringing all this money in. What is the benefit for you then? Do you take a percentage then also?
Speaker 1:I mean, you're putting in your own money, yeah, I mean, that's a great question and I'm going to give you some basic terms. That would be in the industry. What most people would do is let's say they're raising whatever dollar amount, the money that comes in from the limited partners that are coming in that are passive, they typically get a preferred return. So their money day one they put $100,000 in. Let's say they start earning, let's say, an 8% preferred return. Well, that starts accruing. Okay, because there's no cash right. Typically when you are building or you're buying something, you got to put a bunch of capex money into rehab so that you can. But it is accruing, all right. So then you start making cash flow. Uh, let's say two or three years, and well, the operator has to pay all that accrued. Um, preferred return first, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So they start getting paid and then, depending on the structure the operator sponsor myself doesn't get paid till the very end. So you have to perform in what's called a waterfall and that's all it is. It's like I hit. I have to hit certain financial hurdles to my limited partners before I start taking any profits off the back end. So I'm high before I start taking any profits off the back end. So the incentive for me is to take care of my investors first so that I can get compensated.
Speaker 2:If I can't do that, the way the money flows is the capital and the return go to the investor first and then the operator second or last typically, you know, and the thing that I look at when I think of these kinds of investment strategies is there has to be a lot of people too, and this is what maybe you can help us looking for. There's got to be people out there that are crooked, that don't know how else to say it, that are going to be trying to do what you're doing but are actually just taking the money and either A embezzling it or you know how do we. There has to be a lot of ways of looking to make sure that this is legit. I mean, is there a? Is that happening?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's happening. Um, yeah, and I would tell you this there are ways to check backgrounds on people. Okay, and it's worth the due diligence to do that. If you've got you and a friend or two or thinking about doing an investment, there's background checks you can do. It's called UCC searches. You can do. You can see if there's any bankruptcies or any liens or anything.
Speaker 2:You can get a pretty good history on somebody.
Speaker 1:And I would really encourage people to do their due diligence on something like that. It's incredibly important. And the other thing is is look at the track record, ask them for the track record, and we'll do this a little bit later, but I have. I have a document called you know there's 10 top questions to ask a sponsor and it's you cannot ask enough questions If you don't know. Ask if they get you know, perturbed at you for asking questions. Move on, that's my job as a sponsor is to answer those questions the best I can, every single time, 24-7. And, quite frankly, I learn a lot too.
Speaker 2:I get questions all the time that I'm like, hey, I don't know that one.
Speaker 1:Let me go figure it out.
Speaker 2:Interesting, very interesting, yeah, so we put some money in. I say I give you some money, you're the sponsor, I give you some money.
Speaker 1:You're saying, it takes like three years until I'm really going to see any kind of return. Is that correct? Yeah, and so you know, typically we were doing development, ok, and in a development, you acquire the land, build a project, stabilize it, and that takes two and a half to three years and then you would start seeing cashflow or a disposition, a sale, right? Well, those days are pretty much behind us at cheap money, low supply. So what we're doing now in the markets driving this, the debt markets driving this we're looking for acquisitions. Well, because the cost is so high still to build. We have more supply today. So what's developers, what are called merchant builders? What they do is they buy the land, build it, lease it, sell it, they move on to the next one.
Speaker 1:Well, their loans are maturing now oh, I know they took them out two, three, four years ago were three and a half 4% very cheap. That floating rate's now eight and a half or 9%. Okay, there's no good answer to refinance or go into permanent financing after that construction loan because that money is still eight 9%. So what these guys are doing is they're saying you know what? I would rather go ahead and get out of this and sell this asset and get my investors whole, and if I have to sell it below cost, I have to sell it below cost, but I get to move on and do another deal at a later date.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we're going to see a lot more of that, yeah.
Speaker 2:We're not even hitting the bulk of that yet. We bring this up in our office with the commercial agents.
Speaker 1:I think we've got another two years of of that, I think you know I I shared with you guys, um, just as one of the talking points, we have $600 billion of multifamily debt coming online in the next 30 months, Wow, yeah. So it's massive the of opportunities that are going to be there. Now, this is not 2008, 2009.
Speaker 2:No, we know that. We know that it's not Armageddon, okay, yep.
Speaker 1:It's just a supply and demand equilibrium. You know where we are today, but we have and we'll talk about this in a little bit but we're positioning ourselves with what we call some rescue capital to come in and help these developers short term to get over the goal line, to get the property leased up so that they can sell it. And we're putting our investors in a really good position safety, security, cash flow short term, so that they can see a transaction happening and one that we could potentially go buy, because we're sitting there today and we're getting to watch the asset perform from the property management, from the asset management, the demographics around that. So we're getting ourselves in a position, I think back half, probably about mid-2025, we're going to start seeing a lot of opportunities for the next 18, 24 months, and nice opportunities too Good class, A good markets, good demographics, because there is a there's a supply glow right now, yeah, yeah, and we thought we talk about some cities around us.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're here in Berks County and Reading, pennsylvania, and I talk about Philadelphia and New York all the time. A lot of those leases are just going to be, they're going to be coming up to renew and a lot of stuff's going to be empty. So the thing that I like about that, though and this is more about commercial than it is about multifamily but I think it's going to be great because I think you're going to see also a lot of repurposing into apartments and into condos, because if we don't need all the commercial space as far as office and mostly office, I should say if we don't need offices because everybody's still working from home, it would be great for mostly induct, mostly officers, I'd say, if we don't need offices, everybody's still working from home, I would. It'd be great for, like an investment Avenue, for, like you guys, to go in and have an investor go in, take the place and turn it into residential, you know, and turn into apartments or condos. You know, is that something that you see that could happen?
Speaker 1:You know, in our market um, we are so new as a, as a state, I mean, we're only 30, 40 years old, we're old, you guys have buildings everywhere.
Speaker 2:Hey, George Washington was on our streets, so it's a little different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, we don't have as much in my office. You think anywhere from the 1940s all the way up to the 1980s, you guys, Jersey, New York, Philly, all of Boston, I mean that was the hub of business.
Speaker 2:True, that's interesting. So it is more of a regional area. It's a regional thing for us.
Speaker 1:I had a friend do one in Minneapolis, St Paul.
Speaker 2:He went in and picked up a building at 50 cents on the dollar and they're converting a third of it into an office building, nice one.
Speaker 1:And they're converting a third of it into condos.
Speaker 2:Amazing yeah that's what we think we're going to see here. I think that's what we're going to see, that.
Speaker 1:I think we will. Yeah, that's not our wheelhouse. I'm not an expert on that at all.
Speaker 2:That's all right.
Speaker 1:That's right. So what did you want to? If you're looking for a way to get exposure to commercial real estate and multifamily?
Speaker 2:and I'll tell you a little bit about us, so you can kind of see what we're doing.
Speaker 1:We're focused in Texas and Florida and we like those because of net migration, jobs, affordability, all that. So we still have a lot of growth going on here, but anywhere in the nation this is going on. There is the way the deals were financed. You typically had bank debt and then you had what's called common equity or just equity would come in and they would syndicate that. You'll get a group of people and they put the money in and the bank debt was usually 70 percent and the equity was 30.
Speaker 1:And that was 100 percent of the money was what's called a capital stack. You know, and you go out, and you know the sponsor would do their thing, you would fund the project, you'd do your thing, the returns would come in and you move on down the road. Well, what's happened now is the values of things have come down. The leverage has come down. Meaning you know leverage, meaning you want as much cheap money from the bank as you can get. You know everybody wanted that 4% money. It's gone. Yep, that's gone. So that bank debt has gone from 70% to 50, 55. And now the investor is sitting here or the sponsor is going like okay, I've got this gap. You know, my common equity is over here, my bank is over here, I've got to fill the money or somewhere.
Speaker 1:What happens is they look for short-term funding. What we're doing is we got multiple calls a year and a half ago going hey, you guys have been raising equity for us. We need some money today to get over the goal line. So what that is? It's called preferred equity and it's rescue capital. You're rescuing the developer. So we go in and let's say we put in four or five million dollars.
Speaker 1:Well, we're not common equity, meaning we buy a percent of the deal and we get the upside and the preferred return and you know, if it's a grand slam they get a big payday. We're going in and say, okay, we'll give you this four or five million dollars, we're going to get a contracted return and we get it's like a second loan. I mean, people know what a second loan is. Absolutely it acts like that. But what happens is that we put our money in and our investor gets anywhere between 12% and 14% annualized.
Speaker 1:We, our investors, us we are paid off before the common equity is. So when that asset has a recapitalization for new money, a refinance goes into permanent loan for long term, our money gets paid, our capital and our return gets fully paid before that common equity gets paid. So you have that safety net of money behind you. Now you come in at preferred equity, you get to watch the deal. I mean, you're on the front row, you can watch what's going on there. So you get to learn quite a bit on how this asset performs. You get all the monthly reports, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:The financial is super safe. Yeah, common equity is behind you.
Speaker 2:So the common equity are the partners in the actual original corporation or whatever. Right, that's the common equity, okay.
Speaker 1:You got that right.
Speaker 2:And the preferred is basically somebody coming in temporarily to help out the situation, to get it built, to get it profitable, and then they get their money back. Is that right?
Speaker 1:You're exactly right.
Speaker 2:Okay, see, I'm actually getting this. Hugo, hugo, I'm actually starting to understand this.
Speaker 1:That's right, this, Hugo, Hugo. I'm actually starting to understand this. I tell you what and we kind of mentioned this before we jumped on the show If I had had a pref equity solution 12, 13, 14 years ago and gave that to my new investors, my new investors would have learned a lot in two or three years and they would have had a much easier transition into common equity.
Speaker 1:But today, and this is, we haven't had to use common equity in 14 years, 15 years, because money's been so cheap, you know. So today you can't make a common equity deal, really pencil, I mean, there's going to be that unicorn out there.
Speaker 1:But this preferred equity allows you to get into the deal. You may say I'm in and out in two years, three years, whatever the terms are that we contract. But there's just not a lot of common equity opportunities and you don't want your money sitting there with inflation I don't care what they say. Inflation is, you know, eight, nine, 10 percent. Yeah, it's not three.
Speaker 2:No, definitely not. So go to the grocery store, you little that'll, that'll like that'll that'll show you what's going on.
Speaker 1:Anyway, it's such an easy way for investors to come in and get some short-term commitment, earn 12%, 13%, 14%, and then when the deal is transacted for the new debt you get paid off and that's contracted. The whole thing is contracted with the sponsor.
Speaker 2:You know what's really interesting about this? Because, like you said and I just never thought of this until you said it is that as the lending rate goes up, you have to be creative in getting other people to come up with the money in order to be able to do the project at an affordable cost. So, when the bank rates are at 8%, 9% or whatever it is, what you've done is you've found a way to bypass having a lot of bank debt.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's expensive though, I tell you, but it's really short-term.
Speaker 2:Right, but it's short, that's what I'm saying. But it's short-term expensive. But over the long term, then, after that's paid off, then it's gone at that point, which is great.
Speaker 1:Well, here's just a quick example. One of our construction loans is $40 million and it's paying 8.5% 9%. That's expensive. The other one is $4 million, the pref equity at 14%. So you can see the total cost of capital is far lower for the sponsor. He's going man, give me your short-term two, two-year 14% money. That's far cheaper than my, you know, going out and paying 9% over here and adding it to my 40 million.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm 100%, so that's where I was right there. So just because, for time, I do want to get into you're doing this nonprofit that I wanted to talk about. It's called the Never Quit Initiative. Can you tell me about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have. You know, my mom's a teacher, Okay.
Speaker 1:My wife's a teacher, so okay, yeah, my mom was 37 years and then she became a principal and all that. But you know, I grew up with, just you know, education, education, constantly. And then, right around 2000, 2001,. I made some changes because I said I've got to do something different. Because I was a W-2 employee, I was traveling money through Friday, I was making great money, I was out in San Jose and San Francisco working in the software world. But I said I can't continue to do this and I've got to do something different and I started looking into real estate. I just I found real estate. I found, you know, the loans were good, the taxes were good, so I pivoted into that.
Speaker 1:The girl that I was dating at the time became my wife and we said, hey, if we're going to do this, because she loved it too, she said. I said let's move back to Texas where family is. So we went through all this and we started realizing how little education there was out there for what we're talking about. And you've got adults that are going to listen to the show and watch the show and they still have not been exposed to some of the things that you and I are talking about. And I just said, you know, someday I want to put a program together to really work at the high school level or the college level about real world investing. You know, not stocks and bonds, anybody can do that. But how does real estate and other types of alternative assets? How do they work? Yeah Well, the Never Quit initiative was really driven by my wife who passed away of cancer.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But she never quit, and that's the whole thing.
Speaker 1:And through the whole process of her helping us build cash flow when she got sick we didn't have to give up the world or go bankrupt or lose our home because we had spent 10 years building up cash flow that actually saved our life. Because if we had not have had that and we saw people that that were just straight up w-2 didn't have anything else going on. As we're going through the cancer treatments and the chemo treatments and all that, we, I saw families just get devastated yeah, it happens a lot it just.
Speaker 1:It just killed me. Yeah. So after her passing and just just a year and a half ago, my kids and I decided that we want to now they understand they're just now old enough to kind of understand what's going on and how it happened and all that but we decided to set up the never quit initiative. Um, it's new I'm going to be working on it more but it's really going to be designed for education the power of cashflow. You know, when people say cash is King, I say cashflow is King cashflow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then, um, you know in in her name if we do that. And then part two of that is that we saw families lose their homes when we were going through.
Speaker 1:you know all this stuff and I said, if I can ever keep a family together, if I can ever help pay their rent or their mortgage through this period. I said that is something I can't imagine a family being um vacated from a home while they're going through stuff like that. So the education side and just the support side, and so we're going to get real active with it next year. We have quite a few friends and family have donated to it, understanding that. So it's in her name and I'm just now at a point where I can talk about it. If you had asked me this question, I'd have had to say I can't really talk about it, but we're there, it's exciting for us and it's something we're really passionate about the education and the support we can do for a family.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, man. I really like that. It's a great story and I didn't realize that that's where it came from. I'll tell at the we're at 28 minutes. Um, we got to wrap it up. We'll probably have you back If you're if you're, into coming back to talk more about this stuff. Uh, I want, I want you to stay in touch with us, uh, and actually with with the um, the never quit uh initiative. Get us more information on that from time to time too. I would love to stay up to date on what's going on with that, share it with our audience and and uh see if anybody would be willing to contribute towards that also. So, um, thanks so much, man for coming, for being on the show. Uh, really appreciate it. Is there anything that you want to leave us with at the end of the show here?
Speaker 1:You know, I there's. There's a couple of things, uh, that I see over and over and over again people if if you know I talk about the, you know, um mean, education without execution is just entertainment. I don't know if you've ever heard that. Yeah, I am. So I mean, you're going to make mistakes. Okay, you are absolutely going to make mistakes, but the sooner you make them, the better off you're going to be.
Speaker 2:So true.
Speaker 1:Take that first step. You know, it changed our lives with my wife. I kid you not, we were so lucky that we had spent 10 years building that up, because if we hadn't, I don't know what would have happened to us. We survived and we were flourishing and everything's good. So I'll leave your audience with that.
Speaker 2:Amazing, great story, great story. Thanks so much. I love the contribution. It's amazing. All right, take care.
Speaker 1:OK, man, we'll see you.
Speaker 2:There we go, All right. Darren Davis. Seriously, if you're looking him up online, just look up his name. You can find him anywhere. He's got socials everywhere and the company is called Club Capital and if you have interest, there's a lot of places on his website that you can get information. You can ask about being an investor. They'll guide you through the whole thing. So there you have it All right. We'll see you next Thursday 7 pm. Thanks for watching the show.
