The Brad Weisman Show
The Brad Weisman Show
Navigating Transactions and Protecting Against Scams with Tiffany Webber
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Unlock the secrets of real estate transactions with our special guest, Tiffany Webber, an accomplished attorney from Lake Norman, North Carolina. Tiffany's captivating journey from litigation to real estate law provides a unique lens on the collaborative nature of property deals. Learn how real estate transactions vary between states like North Carolina and Pennsylvania, especially the roles of attorneys and the utilization of standard forms. Tiffany also shares her insights into the vital contributions of real estate agents and common transaction issues, including the optional nature of surveys in North Carolina.
Stay vigilant against real estate scams with our in-depth discussion on wire fraud and vacant land scams. Tiffany offers practical tips on safeguarding your transactions, from verifying wire instructions to confirming seller identities. Discover how to protect yourself from deceptive deed scams targeting new buyers, with a focus on the accessibility of certified deed copies FOR FREE. We also explore property rights and legal matters, comparing foreclosure processes between Pennsylvania and North Carolina, and the impact of homeowner equity on foreclosure scenarios. Tune in and empower yourself with valuable knowledge for navigating the real estate landscape. #ThomasandWebber #realestatelaw #tbws2024 #tiffanywebber #bradweisman
"Tiffany also has an awesome podcast called The Real Estate Show, that you will definitely want to check out!! What I love about Tiffany is her casual (but legal) approach to her topics without making her audience (or me) feel dumb. Definitely check her out on Youtube or Instagram for more great info!" - Brad Weisman
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Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show (formerly known as Real Estate and YOU), where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! 🎙️ Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! 🏡🌟 #TheBradWeismanShow #RealEstateRealLife #realestateandyou
Credits - The music for my podcast was written and performed by Jeff Miller.
from real estate to real life and everything in between, the brad weisman show and now your host, brad weisman. All right, we're back in the studio for another awesome show. Of course, thanks for joining us, by the way, and also wanted to say real quick thanks for our sponsors comfort pro uh, we really appreciate their new sponsor here, so we want to thank them for sponsoring the show and we have a good show today, a really good show. We have the real estate show podcast is a really cool podcast and the one that actually runs it as Tiffany Weber. Now, she's from down in Lake Norman, north Carolina, which is a really cool place. If you've ever been, it's actually very nice, and I've been watching her podcast. I've been watching and following her Instagram and she just has great information. She has great topics and I thought, man, I got to get her on the show. So we did so. Tiffany Weber, how you doing?
Speaker 2:Hello Brad.
Speaker 1:Good to see you.
Speaker 2:Good to see you too. I'm so excited to be here. It's a big honor. I love your show as well. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that Well, she, you have a great show. You really do. It's packed with information and I got to tell you if anybody's out there looking to to purchase a home, especially in North Carolina. Uh, but even so, what I thought was interesting, tiffany, is that there's a lot of these, the topics that you bring up, are not just for North Carolina. It's very, very universal, and that was the cool part about your when I when I was watching some of your shows and listening some of your shows, and it was always very good content. So, yeah, kudos to what you're doing. I love it. So let's dig in and I guess Ryan's in the background, your husband he is in behind this wall is his office okay so yeah, he and he really like he does all of the hard work.
Speaker 2:You know it's like really lucky of me to be able to come sit and he really like he does all of the hard work. You know it's like really lucky of me to be able to come sit down and he's got the lights set up, the camera and. I just get to talk and have fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you are an attorney at Thomas and Weber. And how long you been an attorney?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, uh, nine, nine years. I worked in the corporate world and then went to law school at night, so I've been working longer than that, but practicing law nine years.
Speaker 1:Good for you. Good for you. So how long has the real estate show been going on?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh. Well, we started the YouTube channel in its current iteration in January 2020. But the podcast form of it was introduced as a pet project of mine, like not long before my daughter was born.
Speaker 1:So beginning of 2022, 2022, there you go. So you, you got some. You got some shows under your belt. I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 2:A few.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great, that's great. So let's jump in here, okay. So what I really liked is that, when I listened to your shows, a lot of times attorneys and this is not meant to put everybody in one box at all, it's not but many times we will find, if we're in a transaction, if it's not a real estate attorney, they tend to not like us as realtors. But what I found is that you're actually working with realtors really well. It seems like you do that a lot very well. Tell me, how did you get into that situation or that position?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I have to give some credit to my former law partner. He passed away a couple of years ago, but I came from the litigation background. I was a litigation attorney to start and there's really not a team aspect of litigation. You know, it's like everything's adversarial and I found it so refreshing to come into real estate where everyone really is working towards one common goal. There's a, there's a party that wants to sell, there's a party that wants to buy, there's a lender who wants to help that buyer buy and there's agents on both sides working tirelessly to make that happen. So I know I just play one small part of that and we can't succeed in that goal without everybody's cooperation. So I'll tell you one thing I don't want to do the job of a real estate agent. If I really did want to do that, that's the profession I would be in. So the real estate agent is invaluable to the transaction and I think we'd be crazy to deny that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's funny, you're an attorney state, so it's a little different than Pennsylvania. In Pennsylvania we don't. I mean we use attorneys if there's usually if there's a problem, we'll use attorneys at that point, but a lot of times.
Speaker 1:but then again also, I know like our forms, everything we use is created by some very high paid attorneys from the state of Pennsylvania through the Pennsylvania Association of Realtors. So you know we do use attorneys. It's just we use it on a very large level and we all use the same forms. So it is there and we couldn't survive without the attorneys for PAR writing our agreements. We couldn't do it. That's not our, that's not what we do.
Speaker 2:The costs would just keep going up too If you had to have I mean, we have form, we have standard forms as well, and I'm so thankful because the cost of custom draft essentially every time a contract it would make it unaffordable to do business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. What? What are the issues that you see? I mean, we have our own issues, but you probably have some of the same stuff. What are the issues that you see coming up most often in a transaction right now?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if in Pennsylvania you're required to get a survey, but in North Carolina you're not. It's discretionary.
Speaker 1:We're not either. We're not either, just so you know we don't have to.
Speaker 2:So this is probably common. I think it would be shared in both states. In North Carolina, our standard contracts say sellers got to convey clear title, and it's often forgotten that a survey issue is a title issue. Um, so people will think I can't get my survey done in the due diligence period, or um, you know, like I'm going to buy it regardless, only to find out there's some serious encroachment, or um, like in Lake Norman, we've got impervious issues because of the lake, I mean like we got all that's, we're crawling with that stuff and you can only find that stuff out if you get a survey.
Speaker 2:So you know, opting not to get a survey and you close, you've lost all your leverage, you lost your opportunity, you're accepting the condition of the property as it is and then now you're living with that issue yourself. So that's one of the most common things that we see. But then we also, like, constantly have the disputes about, you know, making repairs. Yeah, I feel like that's everywhere, like who's responsible to make repairs, if at all? And in our state a seller doesn't have to.
Speaker 1:Oh, interesting. Well, we don't have to. But I mean, well, the past several years, because of the crazy market we're having, we're not. I mean, we did inspections. I'm in the business for 32 years, so we did inspections for a very long period of time and then, when it got very competitive on this this super sellers market is what I call it it got to a point where inspections are being waived, and really they've been waived for now two, three years. We all get concerned about. Is that going to rear its ugly head at some point? But what are you going to do if a buyer says look, you know what, in order for me to compete, I'm dropping the inspections, and we have you know they'll sign something that states that they're doing that. But you know, from there on out, we think there could be issues with that. Are you seeing issues at all? Yet from no inspections?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, I think North Carolina is. I don't know that. I don't know if Pennsylvania has this. Do you have a due diligence fee in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 1:We do not.
Speaker 2:Okay. So this is something that people really don't like about North Carolina is that we have a non-refundable due diligence fee. A lot of people moving from out of state think it's a scam.
Speaker 1:Right, right right.
Speaker 2:So who gets the due diligence fee?
Speaker 1:Who gets that the seller?
Speaker 2:The seller immediately.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow it's non-refundable.
Speaker 2:Wow so it's basically buying the time off market. You know, because the buyer backs out. You know because the you know the buyer backs out and at least the seller was compensated for their time off market and it's not required, but it is the custom. So you know, it's really-.
Speaker 1:And what does that cost? What is that due diligence fee?
Speaker 2:Well, during the craziest times I had an investor client put up the entire purchase price in the due diligence fee $180,000 investment property. He put it all in due diligence immediately non-refundable If he walked away. He's walking away from 180,000 with nothing to show for it. Wow, that's someone who's buying the property. You know one way, or?
Speaker 2:another buying that property. But you know, it really kind of depends on the purchase price. But and how desperate. It was not uncommon in 2020 and 2021 to see a hundred plus thousand dollars due diligence non-refundable. So you know, we, we still is that in addition?
Speaker 1:is that an addition to the like an escrow deposit or it is, you know, and that actually makes I actually kind of like that idea, because it's really hard to get take. Get that escrow money if there's a problem, right, but it's if there's a due diligence fee that's upfront and done, then you don't have to worry. That's very interesting. I'll have to bring that up here in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they might not like you for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know. Well, then I'll say it's your fault, I get the reason I'll blame it on you.
Speaker 1:I didn't come up with it, so I'm fine with that. I'm going to say there was some attorney in North Carolina that told me that this is the way to do it. So you know, I'll allow it, that's fine. Yeah, you can deal with it. So that's a. That's something that was going on was a due diligence fee. Wow, let's go back to the, when you were talking about the um, the surveys, you know, and one thing that we do find in our area is when you have an older area like our, our area, here there's houses that are, you know, 90 years old, and from owner to owner to owner, they all said, well, the, the right pin is over there and the left pin is over there, and that maple tree is the other side of the one pin. So what ends up happening is, over time, those property lines are not really accurate, and then people don't want to get surveys and sometimes we have issues. I'm sure you run into that also.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely Well. Also, we have to consider that in 90 years surveying technology has improved in quite a bit, so we can be much more accurate now than we could 90 years ago. And you know, I don't know if people realize this, but if the maple tree is one of the markers, trees grow, so at a certain point it's getting bigger, so the lime is going to move at some point so true, just like a creek.
Speaker 1:A creek, creeks move too.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah oh yeah yeah so we have that same problem. I mean it's you know, just a couple weeks ago I was reviewing title on a property that had been platted uh and then in the 20s um so interesting you said 90 years ago because it was a very old plat and the surveyor was like, yeah, from those best we can tell the entire plat has all the wrong. Like the plat doesn't actually line up with the actual pins on the ground, so everybody's plat is wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always wonder where do you start from there? You know, like, how do you? You know how do you start. That's why surveying I don't understand at all Like to me. It's just that it's a mystery to me. I watch them out there when they do it.
Speaker 2:Another job that I don't want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, thank you, no, thank you. So you know, I know one of your shows you were talking about scams. What should we be aware of when it comes to scams that are coming out? I mean, there's new ones all the time.
Speaker 2:We have wire scams, all this. What are you seeing out there? What's the latest with that? Well, anytime I talk about scams, I never miss an opportunity to bring up wire fraud. It's the most prevalent scam there is. I tell every client that comes through our office, assume they're going to get fraudulent wiring instructions at some point in the transaction. And when they hear that up front, yeah, it scares them a little bit, but it also makes them scrutinize very carefully any email to do with money, which is what we want.
Speaker 2:We want them to be extremely careful and also requiring you can't send a wire until you verify those wire instructions. Right, but you know that's something that is extremely common. So one of the lesser known and is growing in popularity scams is a vacant land scam, have you?
Speaker 1:had any encounters with that. Yet this sounds juicy. What is it?
Speaker 2:It is. It is very juicy, so let me set the stage for you.
Speaker 2:This happens most often. Vacant lot Owner lives out of state. From the vacant lot, the property is unencumbered by a mortgage, so own, free and clear owner is not near the property, um, and no house on it. So what happens is someone impersonates the seller and lists the property either by themselves or through a real estate agent that I've. I've seen it happen both ways. And they get even to the point where, in fact, I had an attorney a couple of weeks ago tell me he recorded the deed but before he sent the wire they realized it was a scam. So they were able to. You know it was hard to unwind, but they were able to unwind it. At least the scammer didn't get money. But these people are saying I have to be a mail away, I can't come to the closing because you know I live out of state, which happens.
Speaker 1:This happens legitimately. Yeah, it definitely happens, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But you add on the fact that the property is unencumbered and it's a vacant lot, then your hackles need to go up a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And one thing North Carolina is telling us is that it's everybody's job to you know, it's the agent's job job to you know, it's the agent's job, it's the attorney's job to try to verify the identity of these sellers in these scenarios. So one thing that we do in our office is, anytime we get a contract for vacant land, we are emailing or mailing a letter to the address on the tax card, not something that the seller has told us we're independently finding their mailing address and sending them a letter saying hey, thanks, we've got your contract.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's part of our fraud prevention efforts. We're just verifying that you are selling this property. Um, and then another thing is we won't allow the seller to arrange their own notary. Some will say I'm just going to take it to the bank, or I've got a notary that works in my office. I will just sign our paperwork there. It's not a real notary.
Speaker 2:So we require the notary and then we won't close it unless we verified. Like, gotten on, just like you and I are talking right now, seeing them face to face, and the requirement of the notary and the requirement of a video call in some capacity is cutting out like catching a lot of scammers.
Speaker 1:Wow, I never heard that one. That's a new one for us. You must have a lot more vacant land than we do too, Cause I think that's probably um that I'm sure that has something to do, and also for it to be paid off, not encumbered, like. That's amazing. So there must be like land that's just sitting down there for a while. People don't live there and they're. That's what a what a crazy scam, wow.
Speaker 2:Now do you guys land?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, do you guys get the deed scam? Do you get the one where the they send in the mail to the, to the cell or to the new buyer? Hey, if you want a certified copy of the deed, uh, send in 85 hours, yeah yes you get that one, they've gone up on price on us oh, they really really like 97.
Speaker 2:Now we keep, we keep the letter in the closing room and we and promise you this is coming in the mail to you.
Speaker 1:We have a copy too we just show. I love it, I'm so glad well, if you want the cheaper one, I can get you that if you want that, just in case you want a cheaper certified copy, that's crazy on our fake, on our scam yeah, it's that one there, they, they made a lot of money off that I mean, cause I know a lot of people in the beginning, when that first came out, a lot of people were doing it. They just didn't know you know, they.
Speaker 1:They didn't know that they were given a copy.
Speaker 2:Unfortunate Like you get. You can I guess technically, if they deliver there, they're sending you what they're saying they'll send you free.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, you don't have to pay for that stuff. In fact, you can go online now, today, and get a copy of a deed.
Speaker 1:It's very easy to do. One of the things, too, I saw in your one of your shows that you had it was the 12 clear signs of a bad real estate agent. Now, first off, yeah, I know, hugo, I got a little nervous when I read that, because when I read that I was like I was like, well, I wonder if any of these are me. You know, I hope not. I mean, I'm hoping I'm the, I'm hoping I'm the good real estate agent, but tell me some of these signs of the the bad real estate agent, so that people know what to stay away from.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So first let me say I got to tell my husband that his title worked. If that's what you were thinking like, let me see what these are, to make sure.
Speaker 1:Well, and I'm running down through. And I'm running down through and I think maybe because I'm a real estate agent, but it caught my eye and it was like, oh, my goodness, I got, I got to check this out, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll be fair To be clear, I don't remember every single thing on the list.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, just a couple One of the ones that reminded that, I remember is that and we see this an agent who's afraid to just put the bad news out there. Just be upfront about the. You know, don't try to conceal problems. You know, don't try to conceal problems. Um, you know, don't try to make something sound better than it actually is. It's hard to make decisions if you don't know that what could happen. Um, and another thing is like just not not pursuing any sort of education. You know, like getting the license, but okay, you got the license, I mean, I mean, you're a great example of use, you were up to date, but you have been in this business a long time. You could have been frozen in time 32 years ago and you're like I got it now and just not keeping up to date, and that would mean you'd be given a lot of outdated or bad advice to clients. So if you're unwilling to keep yourself in the game and continue learning and evolving, then that's not great for a client.
Speaker 1:No, and I agree, and we have this discussion a lot of times with agents in our company, because one of the things I people say well, how do you stay in at 32 years? How did, how did you get to this point? Which always blows my mind. I'm in that long, but you know a lot of. It's just staying relevant. And staying relevant means you need to always be a student of your profession and and I'm sure as an attorney, you the laws change. I mean, you know every, every day, you know Um, so you know. I think you're right, I think you really need to stay on top of your game. You got to make sure you're learning what's new and what's out there, because how are you going to represent a person in a transaction if, um, if you're, if, if they may be no more than you, you know, not, not a good, not a good plan.
Speaker 2:It doesn't instill confidence, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know it was interesting too. So you are a real estate attorney. Now you do like municipality stuff also. Do you do that kind of stuff?
Speaker 2:Um, well, I'm curious, what do you mean by that? Like, uh, like townships and the city?
Speaker 1:or or um like, if somebody comes to you and they're doing a subdivision or something like that, would you? Be, involved in that too. Okay, cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we help developers and builders, so we kind of see it from the 200-acre parcel of land to all the way through when that first homeowner is buying it and moving in with their new board.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's cool, that's awesome, very cool. So one of the other things people keep talking about this that's cool, that's awesome, very cool. So one of the other things people keep talking about this do you see foreclosures starting an uptick or do you see that starting to come into the market there?
Speaker 2:I am seeing a little bit more, not so much that I am super concerned. Yet we have always had people interested in foreclosures. They'll contact us to do a title search because they're about to go, in a couple of days, to a courthouse to bid on a foreclosure property. We're seeing it slightly more now, but again not so much that I'm like, oh no, the sky is falling. Maybe, you know, in eight months I'll tell you if that's any different. But you know I would say it's only a minor uptick at this point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's kind of what we're seeing too, because of the equity that people have today, I mean you know, they're saying it was it.
Speaker 1:Oh man, almost like 50 percent of people have like more than 30 percent equity or something you know it's. It's crazy, and I think one of the problems we had in 2008 is was there was no equity. Nobody had equity, right, it was the opposite. Yeah, so as soon as somebody lost a little bit of overtime in their job, they couldn't afford the property they were in, and that snowballed into a horrible situation.
Speaker 2:Do you guys have the right of redemption in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So in North Carolina a borrower can I mean, we've got our at the foreclosure sale, we've got our upset periods, so the 10 days can turn into another 10 days, and so on and so forth. I think that's pretty common. But here, like the borrower can, until that final upset period has ended, the borrower can redeem the property you are paying off or selling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, up until a sheriff sale. That's what we're seeing more. So Up until sheriff sale, they can. They can whatever, because banks really don't want the property. I mean, banks are not in the business to own real estate, they just they don't want it. So a lot of times you know, before it goes to sheriff sale, before the final sale, in order to you know for the bank to buy it back, um yeah, they, they, if they bring that check or they have that money, it's, it's theirs. I mean, nobody ever wants to take a home from somebody.
Speaker 2:Ours is maybe a little bit opposite of yours, in that the sale happens first and then you've got just the payment after that. Oh, wow, it's, you know it, it could. The upset bid periods could continue on and on and on. You could keep getting another 10 days by someone raising the bid, but it essentially it's not over till it's over. They keep that right and I think it's common between the two states? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you guys? What about eminent domain? Do you guys see, in your state or in your local area? We're always fighting that here locally, just making sure that. I mean, obviously we're realtors so we fight, for us is is eminent domain and that that it needs to be a last uh resort, that if that, if the government or highway needs to go through or something needs to happen, uh, they need to really be a last resort. And if it does have to happen for the good of the public or whatever you know it's called um, then at that point there's better be some good compensation on it.
Speaker 2:What is that? What is that eminent domain?
Speaker 1:Eminent domain. You want to explain it?
Speaker 2:You're the attorney I mean I'm happy to, but if anything I say you're like I wouldn't have said it that way. Please feel free. Yeah, that's right, no problem. Yeah, eminent domain is the right of the government to take private property for a public use. So the examples you were giving, like a highway, that's for a public use Sure.
Speaker 2:And there sometimes can be very good reasons why those are needed and the only way to get the land for it is to take it from private individuals. But our constitution and our federal laws say you can't do that without just compensation. And we're having that here. In fact, the building I'm sitting in right now. My husband and I own this commercial building and we just negotiated a nice settlement with the North Carolina department of transportation for a road widening project.
Speaker 1:Just right, on the road. There we go, oh, there can be some benefits. Yeah, I think what it is, it's the, it's the stuff that's more frivolous, that it's like okay, the government's going to buy this golf course, um, because they don't want a developer to buy it. You know what I mean? Like that, that kind of stuff, or taking over something because they don't want private enterprise to have it or to do something with that. That's where it gets a little. That's not right.
Speaker 2:We don't have as much of that, thank goodness, at least not in my immediate area. It's almost all for infrastructure improvement. Yeah, and I get that you know it's needed and nobody really loves when you have to deal with this. But at least it's not just because the government doesn't want to see a private individual or entity do what they want to do with the property, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:That's interesting that you're actually having that go on right now. What are the odds?
Speaker 2:right.
Speaker 1:That's wild. Is there anything else that you oh, I know what I wanted to ask you Before we end the show here. What is this Iron Lands Independence, what is that? I saw the picture. There's like this big iron right, like in the middle of this town or somewhere, and then I guess they want to make it that the land around it is independent, or something. I don't understand it.
Speaker 2:So a little bit of context. Um, our youtube editor that we we've been working with for five or six years yeah he has. He now has his own insanely massive youtube channel. He's got a million plus subscribers and he teach it, uses it to teach civics, um, like civics education in a very accessible way. So you know, this is his like civics project of saying, hey, if we wanted to start a country around this iron statue in Asheville, north Carolina, how would we do that?
Speaker 2:So he tagged me in and said hey, can you look into this, Like how, what would be our first steps if we wanted to make this a country? And he has blown up with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because and I saw you had a whole thing on it and and I was like at first, like what is this? Then I started kind of grasping it. So that's what it's about. It's like a, it's almost like an experiment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. It's an experiment to see how. What would it take?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome. I'm going to dig into that more Actually. That's really cool. Into that more actually, that's really cool. Yeah, very cool, very cool. Well, I got to tell you I appreciate you for coming on today. I really do. I've been watching your show, been seeing you on Instagram, facebook you are awesome at all of that stuff. Uh, how can somebody get in touch with you, either in North Carolina or just to chat with you about any questions they have? Um, you know what's the best way to get in touch with you?
Speaker 2:Uh, so easiest way to find me thomasandwebercom On the internet. We're Law at the Lake, most places that you search. And then Real Estate Lawyer on YouTube.
Speaker 1:Awesome, awesome. You got to check out the show too. The Real Estate Show with Tiffany Weber is really good. Orion is on there sometimes too. I hear him on the show in the background, so that's awesome. Thank you so much. We really appreciate you being on the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you for inviting me. It was great.
Speaker 1:All right, no problem, see ya All right. All right, there you have it. Tiffany Weber. She's just, she's really doing a great job. Uh, the real estate show You've got to check it out. Great podcast. She's from down there, lake Norman, north Carolina. So if you are in North Carolina, you definitely want to look her up. If you're buying a house and you're looking for some representation from an attorney, she is the one. Yeah, so that's about it. Thanks for watching the show and don't forget September 19th we will be having a show here live. All right, that's about it. Bye-bye.
