The Brad Weisman Show
Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! #TheBradWeisman #Show #RealEstateRealLife
The Brad Weisman Show
Upgrading Your "Being", Not Just Your "Doing" w/ Ryan Gottfredson
Hi This is Brad Weisman - Click Here to Send Me a Text Message
What if the key to unlocking your potential isn't learning new skills, but upgrading your internal operating system? In this profound conversation with Dr. Ryan Gottfredson, we explore the revolutionary concept that transformed his life and could change yours: the distinction between your "doing side" and your "being side."
While most personal and professional development focuses on acquiring knowledge and skills, Dr. Gottfredson, author of Becoming Better, reveals that true transformation happens when we elevate our "being side"—the quality of our internal operating system, including our mindsets, emotional regulation, and character. This isn't just abstract theory; it's supported by decades of research across four fundamental mindset pairs that determine whether we operate from self-protection or value creation.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Dr. Gottfredson shares how his own childhood wiring created an avoidant attachment style that kept his wife at arm's length for 12 years of their marriage. His personal journey of awareness and transformation illustrates how our survival mechanisms from childhood often become obstacles to our success as adults, parents, and leaders.
Perhaps most eye-opening is the revelation that 60% of leaders struggle with a fixed mindset—they're more focused on avoiding looking bad than on growth and learning. This ego-driven self-protection prevents them from adapting to increasing complexity, causing both personal and organizational stagnation.
Whether you're leading a team, building relationships, or simply trying to reach your potential, this episode offers practical insights into how healing your mind, body, and heart can elevate your "being side" and transform every aspect of your life. As Dr. Gottfredson puts it: "The wiring that we develop to survive our childhood is not the same wiring that we need to succeed as an adult."
Take the first step toward upgrading your internal operating system by visiting RyanGottfredson.com for free mindset assessments, and discover how becoming better at "being" might be the most important work you'll ever do.
#mindset #ryangottfredson #bradweisman #becomingbetter
---
Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! 🎙️ Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! 🏡🌟 #TheBradWeismanShow #RealEstateRealLife
Credits - The music for my podcast was written and performed by Jeff Miller.
The wiring that we develop to survive our childhood is not the same wiring that we need to succeed as an adult, as a parent, as a leader, as a spouse, as a fill in the blank.
Speaker 2:From real estate to the market as a whole, which then sometimes will affect the technology. Right, you know. Come on the real life. We all learn in different ways. If you think about it, Wayne Dyer might not attract everybody, and everything in between. The mission was really to help people just to reach their full potential.
Speaker 1:The Brad Wiseman Show. And now your host, brad Wiseman.
Speaker 2:All right, we're back. Yeah, you know I'm really excited about this guest. Been looking at his material, looking at his stuff for a little bit now. Got introduced to him through one of the people that finds us guests, which we love. His name is Ryan Godforsen. He's an author, he's from Southern California and I'm going to just read his bio that was online because I just think it kind of sums everything up.
Speaker 2:Ryan is a PhD. He's a cutting edge mindset author, researcher and consultant. He helps organizations vertically develop their leaders, primarily through a focus on mindsets. He helps improve organizations, leaders, teams and employees by improving their mindsets. Ryan is currently a leadership and management professor at the College of Business and Economics at California State University. He holds a PhD in organizational behavior and human resources from Indiana University and a BA from Brigham Young University. The book he just wrote, like I said, is called Becoming Better. The tips from there, the information from there, are really really profound and I'm excited to talk to him about it and really expand on the mindset that he talks about very often. Okay, that's about it. So Ryan.
Speaker 1:I'm here. I'm here, you're there, you're there.
Speaker 2:I see one of your books in the background. Actually too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got three books Success Mindsets is the first one, elevated Leader is the second one, and then Becoming Better is the new one. That's just been out a little about a month.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's good stuff and it really all kind of seems to tie into. Mindset is what I mean when I think of you and I think about everything I've read about you, whether it's your website, whether it's the books and all the notes that I see. It's leadership and mindset, and the one thing that really stuck out to me is upgrade your being, not just your doing. That was a quote that that you had on your Instagram I think is where it was, and I really, I really that that's real deep and I love it. Can you dig into that a little bit For sure?
Speaker 1:And in fact, I think it opens up a developmental strategy that can be absolutely transformational for us If we understand the difference between our doing I'm going to call it our doing side and our being side. So if you think about, maybe like a graph, we've got an X axis and we've got a Y axis. The X axis I want you to think about is our doing side, and our doing side is our level of talent, knowledge, skills and abilities. So, in fact, brad, let me give you throw out some names. You tell me what these people have in common. If that's okay, sure, so let's go Ellen DeGeneres, tiger Woods, bill Clinton, let me see. And Michael Jackson.
Speaker 2:Oh man, what do they?
Speaker 1:have in common.
Speaker 2:Well, they're all very successful, Right, right, they're all. Well, they're all very successful, right, right, they're all they're achievers, they they've, you know they're, they're very, they're excelling in what they do.
Speaker 1:yeah right, and how they've gotten to be as successful as they've been is because of their doing side. Sure, because they have certain level of talent, knowledge, skills and abilities. But the other thing these individuals have in common is there's some controversy connected to these individuals and when you think about that controversy, is that connected to their doing side? No, not at all.
Speaker 1:It's connected to a different side of themselves, and that's our being side. And our being side is the quality and sophistication of our body's internal operating system. We can call it the quality of our character, our psyche, our mindsets, our emotional regulation abilities. And so here's what I've learned is that maybe 98% of all development efforts focus on helping people improve along their doing side, and that, surely, can be helpful. We need it. That's our education systems, our athletic programs and most of our organizational development efforts. But what I found is that when we improve along our doing side, it's only incrementally helpful. But if we can elevate along our being side, that Y axis, and upgrade our body's internal operating system, that is transformational, that is life-changing stuff right there. And it just so happens that very few development efforts focus on that being side. So that's the core of my work and my books how do we connect into that being side? How do we upgrade our internal operating system so that we can become more of the people that we want to become and have more of the influence?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think, and I agree a hundred percent, and maybe to help the audience would be to let's, let's dig in, define those things a little bit more. Give me an example of the doing part of Michael Jackson.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So Michael Jackson, for example, he develops the vocal skills to be able to sing or to produce, put together some really amazing music. Now I think we've all hopefully all of us have kind of bumped shoulders with let's call them celebrities. People have been really successful. Have kind of bumped shoulders with let's call them celebrities People have been really successful. And one of the things that I've I've learned is I've bumped shoulders with some or met people who have bumped shoulders with celebrities is we hear that some celebrities are really kind of just warm people and they were so great to meet. And there's other celebrities that you just kind of hear them say they were such a tool, like I mean, I was just a crumb that you just kind of hear them say they were such a tool like I.
Speaker 2:I mean, I was just a crumb that they just felt they could step over right?
Speaker 1:yeah, and, and that impact right there doesn't have anything to do with their doing side. All right, that's all about their being side I mean you can take even like doctors. For example, a hundred percent of the time that they spend in medical school and residency programs is developing knowledge and skills, but very little time is spent on figuring out how to help doctors with their bedside manner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so true.
Speaker 1:Which is maybe as important as having the skills to do the work that they do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so true, and that really breaks it down that they do yeah, so true, now, yeah, and that really breaks it down because and but what's interesting about that? When you develop more of the being side than the doing side. I think also that's where trust comes in. Like when I think about my business or I think about doing okay, I can sell a house, I can write an agreement of sale Okay, that's the doing part, but the I can write an agreement of sale Okay, that's the doing part, but the the being part is actually caring about their kids getting into school on time. Caring about where are they going to put the pet when there's a showing, caring about that's the B. I would think that's the being side. Is that? Does that? Seem right?
Speaker 1:Spot on right, because here's what I've seen in the real estate industry as somebody who has bought and sold houses, you know, as a consumer or a buyer and working with different real estate agents is there, and this will connect this into mindsets. Here there's one of the mindsets that I focus on is the difference between an inward mindset and an outward mindset. When we have an inward mindset, we see ourselves as more important than others, and that causes us to see others as objects. But when we have an outward mindset, we see others as being just as important as ourselves, and that allows us to see them as people and to value them as such. And I'll just say my experience working with different realtors is that some of these realtors see me as a person. Others see me as a dollar sign yeah, commission, and I can pick up on this.
Speaker 1:I think all of us can pick up on that instantly. And so what matters oftentimes, yeah, you need to have the requisite knowledge and skills. That's the doing side, but what really matters is that, being side, altitude. Are we somebody who's only focused on us and what's going to come into our pocket as a result of the sale, or is our body more wired and programmed to create value for the people that we're serving, program to create value for the people that we're serving and, ultimately, it's when, when people that operate there, they're operating on a completely different stratosphere than the others.
Speaker 2:And they say that's why and not that we have to stay on real estate, but it's just interesting but they say that's the reason that women do a better job in real estate than men because they tend to be caregivers, they tend to be more being in those moments. Um, then, uh, a guy will come in sometimes and just be like all right, let's just get this done and get the commission and get it over with. You know, whereas, uh, women tend to be more caregivers and care and and and more about the being than the doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see that. In fact, I think, in some ways, women have to compete differently than men, and and for many women they revert to the being side as a way to compete compete on a different sphere than men, and so I think that that's part of the process, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing. So the doing part in any business or anything you're doing with leadership, or the doing part can be taught. The being part, can it be taught?
Speaker 1:Well, there needs to be a certain level of education about our being side. But, right, we can put some labels to this. We can start talking about things like mindsets, emotional intelligence, character. Even think about really great attributes like humility, authenticity, vulnerability, patience. All of those characteristics are not doing side characteristics. We don't gain those characteristics by gaining new knowledge and new skills. We gain those characteristics by refining and upgrading our body's internal operating system, and so that's.
Speaker 1:That's the inherent challenge is we have, if we want to elevate along our being side, we actually have to do different things than what we're used to when we do the doing side development and where it all starts is it starts with self-awareness. We've got to start awakening to the quality of our being side, and all of these different kinds of topics are different lenses that we could take to evaluate our altitude along our being side. But here's the reality we can evaluate our altitude along our being side. We can get a sense of how high or how low we are there, and, of course, the more that we get clarity on where we're at, we're going to have greater clarity on where we need to go, and so that's kind of the purpose of my new book is teaching people. What is our being side? How do we evaluate our altitude and then how do we elevate on a higher level of our being side?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's not easy work. I mean you have to be willing to accept that you need to work on that first right. I mean, part of it's the whole denial thing. If you're denying that you need that, or if you feel that you're good the way you are, which most people, a lot of people, will do, I mean, how do you get past that? I mean, who tells that person that they need to work on that? I mean that's a they have to tell themselves.
Speaker 1:I would think yes, so one of the things that we've learned is that being side development requires what is called a heat experience, and a heat experience is something that causes friction in our lives, that causes us to reevaluate how we tend to see and process our world, and so then that's part of this awakening process. Now a heat experience could be something that's external to us. You know, maybe we got in an accident, had a cancer diagnosis, went through a divorce, something along those lines. Those are all heat experiences, but not everybody capitalizes on the heat experiences that they go through. So it's more than just a heat experience. So there could be external heat experiences. There could be also internal heat experiences where we say, hmm, just, I'm not the person I want to be, let me investigate why that is right, and we could create internal heat experiences. So we've got to have internal heat experience. So that's the first ingredient.
Speaker 1:The second ingredient needs to be what is called colliding perspectives. So we need to now, with that heat experience, kind of take our perspectives and collide it with different perspectives, to kind of say, oh, are there better perspectives than what I typically bring to these scenarios? And generally there is, because here's a saying that I've heard that I really like. The wiring that we develop to survive our childhood is not the same wiring that we need to succeed as an adult, as a parent, as a leader, as a spouse. As a fill in the blank, all of us need upgrading right. We did a great job surviving our childhood, whatever cards we were dealt, but that wiring that we developed to survive our childhood probably isn't the most optimal wiring for navigating life at a high level.
Speaker 2:It's kind of funny when you think about it that way, when you think about it that we've that we're, we're taking the wiring from, let's just say, zero to seven or eight or 10 years old and we're still using that wiring, thinking that that that's absolute, that's gospel and really it needs to change over time, like anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me bring it to life. I'll give you myself as an example and it's connected to my life story. So my dad in the early 80s he was an entrepreneur and he lost his business during the economic downturn. At that time in his life he also lost his first wife and had three teenagers. He meets my mom and they shortly thereafter have me. So my dad has been through a lot of crap during that period of time Because he kind of lost his business. He took a stable civic job. He was a civil engineer at a town a couple of hours away from where I was born and he kept, he stayed in this stable civic job for the remainder of his career and he he had gotten burned as an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1:And so what? I grew up in this environment where, effectively, he kind of taught me you should never be an entrepreneur because you're just going to put your family at risk and it's not worth the hassle, wow. So so that was how I was wired, entering into adulthood. And I'm going through adulthood and I take this job as a professor job as a professor. Why did I become a professor?
Speaker 1:Well, probably because I've got some wiring that says there's some safety and security in the tenure system, and that was part of why I think I made my decision, and I didn't realize it, that was going on, that was a part of my wiring. Well, I'm in my job as a professor for a couple of years and I'm starting to think I don't know if I could teach the same classes for the next 30 years of my life, and so I decided, well, maybe I need to explore doing some consulting and, and so I took a leave of absence from my university. I took a job as a consultant at Gallup, and I was at Gallup for 10 months and I got fired. Oh, and I never thought I would get fired.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a whole different thing.
Speaker 1:So this was this was my heat experience getting fired.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cause it forced. I mean I was. I felt a lot of shame, I was traumatized by this. I never thought I'd be somebody who's fired. And here's the thing about it is, I knew I had the knowledge and skills to be successful. But what I realized through this experience and now I can look back on it while I had the knowledge and skills to be successful, I didn't have the being side abilities to be successful, and so that rocked my world and it led me to reevaluate.
Speaker 1:And at that time, just for context, I went back to the university and I started to do research on mindsets. And as I start to dig into mindsets I start to realize I don't have the best mindsets and I need to do something about that. So what I learned is through my upbringing I had developed a prevention mindset where my body was wired to avoid problems. Oftentimes this is kind of closely aligned to a deficit mindset, and what I learned that I needed to have was a promotion mindset, kind of more of an abundance mindset, where I'm less focused on avoiding problems and more focused on accomplishing a purpose. And as I started to work on that and I shifted my wiring from my upbringing, from that prevention mindset, to a promotion mindset.
Speaker 1:Well, now I started to think differently. What do I need to do to create the life of my dreams? Well, that's when I kind of sat down and I decided well, I think I'm going to write a book. In order to be successful with the book, I need to start a business. And that scared me to death because of my internal wiring, but because I had shifted to a promotion mindset that was no longer as scary as it used to be. I was still scared, but it seemed like it was the absolutely necessary step that I needed to take to reach my goals. And so I became I'm going to call it less comfort focused and much more purpose focused, and that's just completely changed the trajectory of my life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's a good and that's part of. That's part of the four mindsets that you talk about. It says about the promotion mindset versus the prevention mindset. So the prevention, we'll dig into that a little bit more Basically, that type of mindset is just avoiding any conflict, avoiding anything that's uncomfortable avoiding, and so it's more about avoidance than doing something that's going to get you further. I mean that's-.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. It's about avoiding any discomfort or any problems. Amazing so, for example, about avoiding any discomfort or any problems.
Speaker 2:Amazing.
Speaker 1:So, for example, a lot of times in organizations, for example, why are, why are some managers, micromanagers, right? Because their body's more wired to avoid problems than to reach goals.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's. That's a big distinction between that prevention mindset to a promotion mindset.
Speaker 2:It's living in the comfort zone. It really is. It's living inside the comfort zone and I always say to my kids nothing ever good happens inside the comfort zone. You got to get outside it, so, uh, but that's I like the mindset, so let's go through. You talked about the growth mindset, just because you're on that kind of that path here, and I think we talked about growth and fixed, didn't we? Or no, inward and outward, yeah, yeah, yeah, inward and outward, and an open mindset as opposed to closed mindset. I don't know if we talked about that, you want to get into that one?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. So let me just kind of pin this up a little bit Sure.
Speaker 1:So what I focus on, or what I've learned through my academic research, is that there's four different mindsets, mindset sets that are out there and have been researched over the last 40 years, and so you've just put the labels to these four different sets. But these four sets, they range on a continuum and hopefully listeners have gotten a feel for this. They range on a continuum from being wired for self-protection in the short term to being wired for value creation in the long term. So we talked about the first one was the inward to outward. The inward is short-term self-protection, outward is long-term. So we talked about the first one was the inward to outward. The inward is short-term self-protection, outward is long-term value creation. We talked about the prevention to the promotion.
Speaker 1:The other one that you brought up is and this is the most well-known set is the fixed to the growth. So the fixed is when we're more focused on avoiding failure and looking good, and the growth is when we're willing to step into learning zone challenges in an effort to learn and grow, and so we're willing to fail in the short term for long-term value creation. And then the last one that we haven't yet talked about is this difference between closed and open. So when we're closed, we, in the short term, we're focused on being right. We have a hard time admitting when we're wrong, but when we're open minded, we see ourselves as not having all the answers, which allows us to not be focused on being right, but to focus on finding truth and thinking optimally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the most popular one. If you think about it, most people know the open mindset, closed mindset because it gets used a lot. You hear that term oh, I'm a very open-minded person or I'm a very closed-minded person. It gets used a lot. So it's very interesting, very interesting, and the more you dive into this with the books you've written, are leaders practicing these things? Do you see leaders of companies practicing these things? Do you see that there's a lot of work that needs to be done in this area? There?
Speaker 1:there is a lot of work that needs to be done in this area, and here's the reason why I think we use the term mindsets almost too flippantly. Right, it's our, we kind of think about it as our attitude towards something, and it can be that, but it's actually. Our mindsets are even deeper. Our mindsets are the most foundational aspect of everything that we do. They're the mental lenses that shape how we see the world, and so everything we see gets in, gets filtered into our brain through our mindsets, and then our mindsets interpret that information in a specific way, and they do so at a non-conscious level. It's automatic. So, for example, how do you how would you say most people see and interpret constructive criticism?
Speaker 2:They get defensive, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Right, and so that's their body's immediate reaction, is they're they're seeing and interpreting this constructive criticism as an attack.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's automatic. And then they get defensive, and that makes sense given how they interpret it. But that's a very self-protective way of interpreting constructive criticism Right. A higher being-side altitude way of making meaning of constructive criticism is to see it as an opportunity to learn and grow. And when we do that we've got this wider window of tolerance to sit with that and explore if it's something that we can benefit from. And so to come back to your question, most leaders are not conscious of their mindsets and so they are going off of the mindsets that their life has kind of told them are the best mindsets. But here's what's interesting. So out of these four sets of mindsets, when I work with leaders in organizations, there's one set of mindset that all leaders struggle with the most. Every leadership group and in fact 60% of leaders struggle with this one. Do you want to take a guess?
Speaker 2:I was just looking at.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking what if I'm gonna I hope it's not growth I'm gonna say open and closed so it is actually the fixed and growth 60 no, that's what I was hoping it wouldn't be, I know, right, because it's probably the most important for them to have for leadership is the growth. Yeah, wow that terrible.
Speaker 1:I think it'll kind of make sense, right? Because why do 60% or more, depending on the organization of leaders have a fixed mindset? Well, a fixed mindset is we are wired to not want to look bad, and most leaders have a lot of pressure to look good, and so they most leaders with this fixed mindset they have a tendency to hold on to what's worked in the past, yeah, and they have a hard time embracing what will work better in the future.
Speaker 2:That's ego too. I mean there's, there's ego.
Speaker 1:Ego is very much plays a role in that?
Speaker 2:Absolutely Because you don't want to look bad, so, and you don't want to look like you want to look in front of your, in front of your, your peers. You want to look like you know what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because as soon as you go to growth you might not know what you're doing in growth. Yeah, so let's connect that word ego. Now back to our being side. Our ability to regulate our ego is a big way for us to evaluate our being side altitude.
Speaker 2:Wow At all. So that all ties in. Yeah, because if you have an ego to feed, it's really hard to be focused on other people, because in your being state, you're focused on other people equally, as opposed to what you said, instead of just focusing on yourself. When you're focused on your ego, you're focused on yourself, right.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, spot on right. So I think it is helpful to think about that being side as being a continuum in and of itself. At the lower end, it's when we're wired more for self-protection.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And at the higher end is when we're wired more for value creation and generally the people that are higher up here. We've identified some things they have a wider window of tolerance, greater emotional regulation abilities, but they also have a purpose that is generally about creating value in the world. So I've been on a decent number of podcasts and one of the things that I've learned is that podcasters begin their podcasts with different motives in mind, and the motives are what are revealing of their being side altitude. And here's what I've learned about podcasts you correct me if I'm?
Speaker 2:oh hugo, he's. He's gonna be ripping me apart. Now I can just feel it. I'm on the hot seat I.
Speaker 1:I don't have a podcast myself, but what I know is having a podcast is extremely difficult and time consuming and it, quite frankly, is probably a thankless job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's fun but it's fun.
Speaker 1:Right and so why is it that somebody would go through this work, in this effort? Well, it's generally either to get certain results or outcomes, and I'm going to say that's kind of a moderate being side altitude. But there's other podcast hosts that are not about results and outcomes. That might be just secondary or tertiary, but the primary reason is because they want to create value in the lives of others. Right, and what I loved in the intro to your show is, as you're playing, your intro is you've got this quote help people reach their potential, yeah, right. So what I sense from you and the motive that you have for your podcast is about creating value in the lives of others. Yes, and and, and that's probably why it brings deep meaning to you and it says something about your being side altitude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, definitely, and it is, it's um, and the more guests that I get, like you and Stephen Scoggins who we had in recently, and, uh, we just had Daryl Black in here the other day it is really really enjoyable, for myself too. There's self, there's self, uh, yeah, gratification, thank you, from this also, where I'm learning so that I can share what you guys talk about on these podcasts. It's, it's very, it's so full circle, it really is and it's very enjoyable and uh, it, yeah, it's great, and I appreciate the, I appreciate the, uh, the comment about the intro. I appreciate that. Let's talk about relationships. Do you ever get into the relationships I'm talking about? Like you know, um, husband, wife, whatever those kinds of relationships? There's a, there's a doing side and a being side there. I would think too, do you ever, do you ever touch on that?
Speaker 1:I do. I mean, I don't. I generally focus on relationships in a workplace context, but I think many of the ideas translate. So, for example, I think that everybody has the knowledge and skills to listen effectively, but in the heat of the moment, do we utilize our knowledge and our skills to listen effectively? Right, that's what's contingent upon our being side here. So so that's one way to kind of think about it is, I think a lot of us know how to be a good partner, and we have the skills to be a good partner. We have the skills to be a good partner, but do we have the being side? Capacity now becomes the question. So one of the things that I bring up in my new book becoming better is I bring up attachment styles. Are you familiar with attachment styles?
Speaker 2:No, not at all.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the theory around attachment styles is that the quality of our caregiver during our upbringing shapes our attachment style. So if we had a healthy relationship with our caregiver generally, we develop what is called a secure attachment style. When somebody has a secure attachment style, they are naturally kind of trusting of others, right? They trust others in the sense of if I as a child make a mistake and my parents still loves me, then that allows me to be more trusting of others as an adult, right? Or as I move forward. Oh, I made a mistake, that's human, somebody will catch me, right? And that's kind of a secure attachment style.
Speaker 1:Well, not everybody had great caregivers when they were children. So what they found is that there are other attachment styles that are less healthy, such as an avoidant attachment style or an anxious attachment style, and so when we don't have and I'll even kind of share my experience, and so when we don't have, and I'll even kind of share my experience my parents, I've come to learn. While they were always there for me physically, they were rarely there for me emotionally and I've had to do some work related to that. But what that caused for me is I developed an avoidant attachment style. Oh wow, because I learned as a child that I was on my own to meet my emotional needs. I couldn't trust others to meet my emotional needs, and that is part of my body's internal operating system. This is related to my being side. So one of the things that I've come to learn about myself, with an avoidant attachment style, is I have a tendency to prefer working on my own and being independent, because when I was little, I had a heart. I couldn't trust others, and so now, as an adult, I've learned.
Speaker 1:Now I used to think that, oh, I'm fine, I'm like, I'm ideal, I would say, but what I've come to learn is I have some trust issues, or that's how I've been wired, yeah, and and.
Speaker 1:So, while I may know how to be, let's just say, vulnerable, I know how to be vulnerable. I have the skills to be vulnerable, but for I've been married for 15 years, and for the first 12 years of my marriage, I kept my wife at an arm's distance because I was scared to be vulnerable. So I knew how to be vulnerable. I had the skills to be vulnerable, but my body didn't let me be vulnerable, and so I've had to do some work on myself, and that's some being side work to be able and I'm not perfect at it, I still need I've got room to grow but because I'm aware of this, of my wiring, I'm aware of, kind, of my altitude and I'm aware of where I need to be or where I want to be, now I could do something about it and that's what that's been my focus over the last several years being aware is key to being able to transform your being side.
Speaker 1:Spot on, that's where it starts. Yeah, it's awareness. Yeah, yeah it's awareness.
Speaker 2:That's very interesting, very interesting. And also and I hate to make everything male, female, but do you find that also, I think men tend to be more um, we're a little tougher with being vulnerable. It's a little tougher for us. I think it's just sometimes because who we're supposed to be, or what society says we're supposed to be, that could be part of some of that also. But that's an amazing, it's a very amazing realization that you've come to in your own life.
Speaker 1:Well, it's helpful and you know, I'm grateful for the people. Like Sue Johnson, folk has been an expert on the space of attachment theory and when I've come to learn, I remember reading my first Sue Johnson book and I was, you know, listening to it and I'm thinking, oh yeah, I've got a secure attachment style, like the whole time I'm reading the book. And then, you know, fast forward a couple of years later and I'm working with my therapist and she's like I'm not sure you have a secure attachment style and I'm like.
Speaker 1:I think you're right.
Speaker 2:It's always the other person that has that stuff. Right, it's never. It's never us, but there's there's. What I love about that is there's there's Pete, there's books written about it for people, cause there's a lot of people have certain things going on, but it's never us, though. It's always somebody else. The book was written for somebody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's funny. So I work with groups of leaders and let me tell you a story with one group. Um, so I'm working with this group of about 30 leaders. They're bringing me in to do a workshop the next day and I've got a mindset assessment. It's free on my website at Ryan Goffersoncom, and I had everybody take this mindset assessment, but the leader who brought me in to talk to this group. So I call her up the day before and I said hey, I really want to get your results to be a part of this, the, the, this collective report that I'm putting together. Can you take the mindset assessment? And so she kind of drug her feet, but she completed it. And then I get a scathing email from her that night said.
Speaker 1:This assessment is terrible. It is wrong. I don't know what you're doing. I don't think I'm gonna be there for our meeting tomorrow. I'm gonna let you still talk to my group, but I'm not to. I don't think I'm going to be there for our meeting tomorrow. I'm going to let you still talk to my group, but I'm not going to be there. Oh my gosh, oh my goodness, this is a train wreck. And I could tell she was hot and so I just let it sit and I said I'll just reach out to her in the morning. And I woke up that next morning to another email from her and the email said um, last night, sorry about my email, I was a little hot. And she said I talked to my husband about it and I think it would be good for me to be a part of this workshop. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:The husband's like uh, I think you need to do this. Yeah, oh, man. And also, what's what's good about that is the leader and the people that are that are running something like that. The rest of the people like to see them vulnerable and know that they're not perfect. That's how you gain trust too, from your, your peers and from the other leaders in the company. You know is knowing that you facing going. Yeah, I have a problem with this, or I have issues here, but I'm working on it. You know, it's something I'm aware of, uh, it's it's amazing.
Speaker 2:That's a good story.
Speaker 1:It's helpful to realize. So what causes people to be self-protective? Right Cause that's what this lady was, she was being self-protective, or walls came up. Well, what causes people to be self-protective is, I'm going to say, two broad buckets our life's experience, or our current culture, or the combination of the two, right.
Speaker 1:And so one of the things and this is I'll bring up this topic, it's kind of been an undercurrent to what we've talked about, but what I've learned is that the more trauma somebody has experienced in their life, the more their body becomes wired for self-protection.
Speaker 1:It's our body's natural default mechanism to experiencing difficult events and situations, and so when we realize this like this is the meaningful part of this conversation is our ability to elevate along our being side is contingent on our effort and ability to heal our minds, our bodies and our hearts At a foundational level, if we want to become better.
Speaker 1:It really is a healing journey, and the thing about this is that our body doesn't naturally want to seek the hurt or the scars that we have, but it's only in revealing those hurts and those scars that we can go in and actually do the work of nurturing ourselves or even others, so that when we're leading a group, our self-protective tendencies don't run wild and we start to micromanage or to freak out if something goes wrong, but we could stay calm, composed, collected, so that we could be that lighthouse that shines the light for others to follow or to guide. And that, to me, is the coolest thing about understanding our being side is ultimately, if we want to become better, we've got to focus on healing our mind, our body and our heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good, really good. The other thing too, real quick before we wrap this up, is you know it's never over. I mean it's never over, right? I mean to be real. I mean we're always working on ourselves, we're always what we should be, and I think our environment changes things that we have to adapt to those things. So I think you're being, you're being part of you is is something that just keeps evolving and we're not done.
Speaker 1:Well, and here's one of the ways that I see it show up in a lot of leaders and I'm really it's everybody but we got to think about two things We've got to think about our being side altitude and we've got to think about the complexity. We've got to think about our being side altitude and we've got to think about the complexity of the world that we're not navigating. And if our being side altitude exceeds our complexity, we can navigate our world pretty effectively. But one of the things I see a lot with leaders is what happens when they get promoted into a new job or a new role. Well, now the complexity of the world has ratcheted up and the question becomes has their being side elevated along with that?
Speaker 1:And most leaders who struggle it's because of this dynamic, because the complexity of their world exceeds their being side altitude, and so in these situations, the leader's only options are either we've got to wait for the complexity to die down, which rarely occurs, or we've got to figure out a way to elevate along our being side, and that's the key. And so that's why this is never done is because we're going to continually put ourselves in situations that are increasingly complex, and the more that we do that. It's going to require us to have to elevate along our being side and I hope and I appreciate you again having me on so that we could open up this door to help people recognize that there is this different developmental strategy out here that's focused not on our doing side. We know how to do that, but we got to open up this door to focus on our being side. Well, know how to do that, but we got to open up this door to focus on our being side.
Speaker 2:Well, like Wayne Dyer said, we're human beings, not human doings, right, spot on. He was so amazing with that stuff, so tell me how we get in touch with you. If our audience is really, they should be into this, because it's amazing, it was good stuff. How do they get in touch with you? I know you said something about a survey. They can do online or they can do like an assessment thing. Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go to my website RyanGoffertoncom. I've got a couple of free assessments that are designed to help you evaluate your being side altitude, so those are there free. Also, you can learn about my books there. And then I'm on all the social media channels, so would love to connect with anybody there. In fact, I'll throw this out there If you go and take one of my assessments, um, and you'll get individual results. If you want to talk through your results with me, reach out to me on social media or through my website and I'd be happy to jump on a call.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, man. I really appreciate it. Ryan, you're doing great stuff. Really appreciate it, you being here. Hopefully we'll have you on again sometime, but you know, thank you again. It was awesome.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me on again. Thanks for creating the space for people like me to come on and share these ideas.
Speaker 2:It's awesome, it's a pleasure, all right. All right, there you have it. Ryan Godforsen. You got to look him up. It's Ryan R-Y-A-N-G-O-T-T-F-R-E-D-S-O-N. If you just search that, you will find him all over the place. He was real easy to find. He's on Instagram. He's got a website. Yeah, take him up on the offer he just made, because that's a great one. He's got three books Success Mindset, the Elevated Leader and Becoming Better, which just came out not too long ago. All right, that's about it.
