From Rock Bottom To Dad Nation with Mitchell Osmond

A brutal fight and a quiet moment at a funeral changed everything for our guest, Mitchell Osmond.  From spiraling debt, weight gain, and a marriage on the brink to a rebuilt life and the launch of The Dad Nation Podcast, Mitchell shares the exact tools he used to turn things around—without sacrificing career ambition or family presence.

We dig into why so many high-performing men feel respected at work yet incompetent at home, and how masculine and feminine wiring can collide if we treat our partners like teammates and our kids like colleagues. Mitchell explains normative male alexithymia—the cultural gap that leaves many men with few words for feelings—and shows how that gap fuels shutdowns, blowups, and emotional distance. Then we get tactical: the RISE Conversation Ladder. You’ll learn how to move from routine logistics to essence-level questions that build intimacy fast, plus easy prompts you can use on your next date so it doesn’t turn into a board meeting with wine.

We also talk about marriage after kids, why your spouse still needs to feel like a bride, and how modeling a strong partnership teaches your children what love looks like. Mitchell brings data, empathy, and a blueprint: simple weekly practices, better questions, and a clearer vision of success at home and at work. If you’ve ever thought, I can fix a business but not a feeling, this conversation gives you language, structure, and hope.

Grab Mitchell’s free Connection Code (50 conversation starters) at dadnationco.com/code, subscribe for more conversations like this, and leave a review to tell us the one question you’re going to try tonight.

"If you are a dad or a dad in training, please listen to this episode!!  It's so packed full of great insights for making a better connection with your wife and kids."  - Brad Weisman

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Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! 🎙️ Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! 🏡🌟 #TheBradWeismanShow #RealEstateRealLife

Credits - The music for my podcast was written and performed by Jeff Miller.

Chapters

• 0:00 Tease And Guest Introduction
• 1:19 Meet Mitchell Osman And Dad Nation
• 4:07 The Fight And The Funeral Turning Points
• 11:02 Masculine Vs Feminine Wiring Explained
• 18:58 Why Men Feel Competent At Work But Not Home
• 26:18 Emotional Skills And Alexithymia In Men
• 31:58 The RISE Conversation Ladder
• 39:58 Marriage After Kids And Keeping Her A Bride
• 45:08 Quotes, Practical Takeaways, And Free Gift

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:22

Alright, rock and roll. From real estate. The market as a whole, it's been sometimes will affect the right in the real life. We all learn it. If you think about it, Wayne Dyer might not attract everybody and everything in between. The Brad Wiseman show. And now your host, Brad Wiseman. All right. I am so excited about this show.

SPEAKER_02: 0:53

What is it?

SPEAKER_00: 0:54

What is it? I'm not going to tell you. You got to guess. You got to guess what it is. Now, we have a really good show here for you, uh, as we normally do, I think. Uh we always we always put on some good shows here, but we have a really good guest. It's a guest that I've been looking at for uh quite some time. And, you know, it caught my eye. There was uh the his uh manager, the people that help him with his social media and get him out there on podcasts, uh, had reached out to me and you know, looked at his at his uh what they call it like a one-pager, and it just hit me right away. I mean, he has this this um organization called the Dad Nation.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27

Dad Nation.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27

Yeah, Dad Nation, which is, you know, we're dads, you're a dad, I'm a dad. And it hit me. And then I started reading some of the quotes and stuff on Instagram, and I was like, I gotta get this. This guy's gotta be on the show. So his name is Mitchell Osman. Mitchell, how are you doing, man?

SPEAKER_01: 1:41

My friend, I'm doing well, and I'm happy to be on the show and chatting with you guys today. Yeah, awesome. You're all the way from Canada. Mm-hmm. They're friendly neighbor from the north, man. Are you cold yet up there? Nah, it's it's it's starting to get a little bit chilly, but we're we're good. We're still hanging on.

SPEAKER_00: 1:58

Still hanging on. We're still hanging on. That's good. We all know snow's coming at some point, so not much we can do about that. But uh, no, you really caught my eye. You you have this uh this whole thing called the Dad Nation, which I think is very catchy, and and I think it it really drew me in, you know, as soon as I saw the name. And I'm just gonna say a little, I'm just gonna say a little bit. It's like a little bio, a little snippet here, but it says, uh, you're the founder of Dad Nation, host of a globally ranked podcast reaching over 33 listeners each month, which is pretty amazing. Uh, your story is not just authentic, it's lived. In just 18 months, you lost 60 pounds, uh, paid off over 100,000 in debt to achieve financial freedom, turned a near divorce into a thriving marriage, and launched a six-figure executive coaching practice alongside that top 10% show that you have. That's a lot. And and I, you know, I read that and then I started reading everything else, and I was like, yeah, gotta have this guy on. So tell me, tell me how did you get to creating this dad nation?

SPEAKER_01: 2:57

Yeah, no, thank you. Well, first of all, Brad, thank you for having me on the show. Um, I'm just really excited to be here. And uh, real quick though, before we jump in, I noticed you you said we I have 33 monthly listeners. I just wanted uh to correct.

SPEAKER_02: 3:11

Yes, you did. I know I I thought that too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:15

That's not many. That's not many. Well, you know, I was trying to make ourselves look good, Hugo. It is 33,000 listeners each month. Sorry about that, buddy. I'm so glad you actually corrected me on that. Oh man, that's funny. So 33,000 listeners is definitely a lot more than 33. And and that's amazing, actually. It's really incredible. So, yeah, tell us about the DAD nation. Tell us about how this became 33,000 listeners a month.

SPEAKER_01: 3:42

Yeah, well, if you'd like, I mean, I can start from the origin story about kind of my turning point. Yes. It kind of led me to get to this point. Absolutely. Um, all right, sounds good. Well, I'll try and keep this short, but uh, because I think it's a great place to start. And a lot of people ask me this. Well, how did you get from there to here? Right. And so for me, there were two critical points, okay? The one, uh, two turning points. One was a fight, and the other one was a funeral. Okay, so we'll start with the fight. Now, if you can picture me and my wife were sitting on the couch in the living room one day, and man, it all hit the fan. Like we got into a fight about money, and that morphed into, you know, about me working too much, not being present, and then it just started to spiral. And at this point, we had been married for about three years, and it was a tough three years, you know, of struggling. Uh but this fight, this day was our children or no children at this point. No children at this point. No, this was our rock bottom. Now we fought all the time, but this one was different. And then I knew that today, this one, I was like, man, I don't I don't think that I can fix this one. Deep down, I I kind of knew that if something didn't change, I was gonna lose my wife. Um, and and and to give you some more context, I'd recently been let go of a senior leadership position. And, you know, especially as men, you know, our career is everything to us. Uh, you know, it was my calling, my identity. I spiraled into depression, like you had her said, like you had said, 60 pounds overweight, 100 grand in debt, medicating, you know, with drugs and alcohol, just trying to cope. And now I was getting dangerously close to divorce. Man, I was, I was all, I was checked out, stressed out, burned out, like all the outs, you know, right? And just um, and I was perplexed with this tension, Brad, of like, why was it that I could see success professionally, but I couldn't figure my life out personally? You know, I could lead teams, I could cast vision, I could run board meetings, but when I came home, I didn't even know how to talk to my own wife. And it was such a tension that I was living in. So to bring it back even more, you know, I had come up, I'd come from a dysfunctional upbringing. I had a non-existent relationship with my father, you know, alcoholism, drugs, crime were just a part of my life growing up. It was littered throughout my family. And I was kind of caught in the middle of it all. So I knew what I didn't want, right? I knew where it came from, but it for the life of me, man, I kept getting sucked into those old behaviors and and and caught like sucked into just the past, reliving the mistakes of my father and his father. And when I would yell at my wife, I could hear his voice and mine, I could hear his words. Oh wow. And there was this duality, man, that that I felt like I was like living a lie because I would see, you know, like I said, I'd see this as success professionally, but I would come home and there was just this tension, right? And so, you know, for me, that that was a was a critical point. You know, my wife said to me, she said, Um, you go to work and you give everyone the Mitchell buffet, and you come home and you give me the scraps. And I'm done. Yeah. And so seven days later, that same the end of that same week was the second point. And this was the funeral part of the story. Now, I was invited to sing at the funeral of this very uh he was a philanthropist, very successful man. And I was remember, I was I was strapping on my guitar, getting ready to sing the last song, and I heard the minister say to the room, he said, Are you living a life worthy of imitation? Because he was talking about this, all the things this guy had done. And he said, If you were to die tomorrow, would you be proud of the legacy that you left? And Brad, as I was, as I was wrapping up and trying to sing the last song, I could barely choke out the lyrics because all I could think in that moment was, man, if this were my funeral, no one would be saying, He inspired me to have an amazing marriage, or he inspired me to get into shape, or he inspired me to, you know, uh get my money in order, get my house in order. They probably would have said at that point, he struggled, and then it was over, you know, and that's the thing, Brad. In that moment, like people were telling stories about this man because that's what we do when someone passes away. And it was uh his life was filled with incredible chapters. And so I was determined that day that I would go home and begin to rewrite chapters for me, that I was gonna take the pen back and rewrite my future. Because up until that point, the first chapter of my life was my childhood, and that was a sad one. The second chapter of my life was my marriage, and that was a big struggle. And so I decided, man, I have to die to the man that I used to be to become the man that I know I need to be for my wife and my, you know, for my family. And so I knew, you know, and we know this. If you want different results, you have to make different decisions. That's the old Einstein's old definition of insanity, right?

SPEAKER_00: 8:23

Yeah, doing the same thing over and over again.

SPEAKER_01: 8:25

Exactly. And so what I did, Brad, was I just, and again, I actually ended up building frameworks around this, but I did this intuitively, but now I understand the significance of it. I just started reaching out to men in my life that were ahead of me, right? Men who my my ceiling was their floor. You understand what I mean? And and so, and these men surrounded me, and they were these guys were thriving in their marriage, they're thriving in business, they're thriving in their fitness, you you know, you name it. And they taught me everything I needed to know. They and they showed me what was possible, right, for my life. And they held me to the standard that I said I wanted for myself. And like you said in the intro, you know, within 18 months, paid off the 100 grand, restored my marriage, lost 60 pounds, and was clean of substances and distractions. And so, what's interesting about that is because I was always in public positions of leadership, people started asking questions like, What are you doing, man? How did you do all this?

SPEAKER_00: 9:22

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01: 9:22

And so I started helping people in my life, just friends of mine who are having a hard time or putting budgets together to help them get out of debt or making meal plans for them. And then one of my mentors challenged me. He said, Man, if you really want to have impact, you need to start a podcast and start telling, sharing with people what you've learned and what you've and just tell your story. And so I launched a Dad Nation podcast about a year and a half ago.

SPEAKER_02: 9:44

Cool.

SPEAKER_01: 9:45

And then within about six months, it was a globally top-rated 10% podcast. And then I had people uh sending me messages from across across North America saying, Hey, would you help? Could you, could you, you know, help me in my situation? And that's when I decided to launch the coaching practice. And that's what I do today, man. I I help high-performing men reclaim their home, their health, and happiness without sacrificing their career success. And I would argue that today you can have you can have the the business, you can have the income, and you can still see your son's soccer games or go to your daughter's dance recital. You can do it. It's not a lot of people are doing it well, um, but doesn't mean you can't. And so that's what that's my story, man. Why do we I struggle with everything you're talking about?

SPEAKER_00: 10:27

Every single thing. My wife listens to this, she's gonna be like, I'm telling you, man, this is gonna be a conversation. She this this I I struggle with every single thing that you're talking about. Every single thing. So it's it's when you're talking, it's like you're talking to me. Um, I think I and I don't, and I know this because I have other friends that that that are very much like a workaholic, whatever you want to call it. I'm very into success or or moving forward and and making money and things like that. And some of the reasons too link back from my parents were great, but the only fight they ever had was about money. So when you grow up with with that, and there's nothing wrong with that, love my parents, they're awesome people, but that was that was what the fights were about. So in my mind, I was always, I am gonna do everything I can in a relationship to never fight about money, you know. So, you know, I think is that's is that the common one is the money thing? Why do we put ourselves in this situation? Why are we not present at home the way we should be?

SPEAKER_01: 12:00

Yeah, such a good question. And a great place to start because this is the great irony about this man, about being a man, especially being a high performer, someone who's really career-driven, is because we work so hard to provide this life for the family. But in many cases, statistically, it's shown that we actually will end up losing the family we're working so hard to provide for, because we actually lose the family in because we work so much. You understand what I mean? Yeah, totally. And then what happens is we get we get disconnected from our kids, we get disconnected from our wife, and then they say, Well, where are you? What you work too much, and then you say, Well, I'm no, I'm just trying to provide. This is what I do. And then you feel disrespected because you're just trying to provide, and then she feels unloved. So then she starts, you know what I mean? So you get caught in this cycle.

SPEAKER_00: 12:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:48

And this is the challenge of being a man and who wants to wants to uh provide financially and wants to work hard. And I'll tell you the reason why is we lose focus. Okay. So let me talk about the masculine versus the feminine for a moment. Um, now when I talk about this, I'm talking about the essence, right? Not necessarily the gender, but specifically, we know that you know, generally men are more masculine than women. Um, we have to be careful these days.

SPEAKER_00: 13:20

Yeah, be careful.

SPEAKER_01: 13:21

Hence my tiptoeing.

SPEAKER_00: 13:23

I can tell you're tiptoeing, and you're doing a great job, by the way.

SPEAKER_01: 13:27

Do you have eggshells under you? Right? It feels like it. Yeah, go ahead. Um, so you want to think about the essence of masculinity. It's driven by performance, it's driven by excellence, it's driven by purpose, by mission, right? The feminine is driven by emotions, it's driven by nurturing, uh, relationships, you know, intuition, all these different things. Uh a buddy of mine said uh the masculine is doing, the feminine is being. And I think that's a beautiful, uh, real simple explanation. But what happens is we get sort of caught in this trap, is we find a lot of our validation through what we do as men, right? And it fulfills something in us because we're masculine. And so, for example, let's think about it this way: if you go to a Super Bowl party, this is a what this is on display, so it makes it so easy to see. Where do you typically see the men that are at the party? Uh, in front of the TV. Exactly. Now, they're in front of the TV, they're watching the athletes doing what they do best because athletes are some of the most purpose-driven. They're on a mission, they're excellent in what they do, they have very clear purpose. It we're like moths to a flame. We're drawn to it because we can also quantify it. Because sports, you can you can tell good, bad, medium, you know, whatever. Where are the women usually at the Super Bowl party?

SPEAKER_00: 14:48

Chatting over at the bar.

SPEAKER_01: 14:50

Exactly. Chatting around the table, sipping a glass of wine.

SPEAKER_00: 14:54

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 14:55

Right? Asking, hey, how are the kids? How's how's Brad doing? You know, they're nurturing the relationships, they're connecting emotionally. They're I mean, and that's just a part of the feminine expression. But here's where this we have to be careful is because men, and now, so now that we understand our wiring, we go to work all day and we fix things and we provide solutions and we strategize all day for eight, 10, 12 hours a day, however long you work. And it's totally in alignment with our essence as men, and it's our skill set because we get really good at it. We come home to a woman who loves us, but could give a rip about strategy or about excellence or purpose or any of that stuff. And what happens is we start shoving like we start treating treating our wives like employees or staff members. We start treating our kids like our colleagues, right? And because that's what we do all day. And so when our wife talks about having a bad day or something's going on, she wants to be connected with emotionally, but all we start to do is try to fix things because that's what we've been doing all day. So it's like, well, yeah, of course I'm gonna fix this. Then she gets upset because she's like, No, no, you're not hearing me. I just want you to hear me. And you're like, I am hearing you, I'm just trying to fix it.

SPEAKER_00: 16:11

And so I don't want are you watching our house with a camera and a microphone? Or I'm just wondering, like, is this just getting creepy now? It's really getting creepy. No, but you're so, so right. You know, they the you she'll start to share, and then you you then it's like, well, Sally did this and whatever. I'm like, well, Sally needs to understand her plan. I start going into the fix mode, and well, why is Sally doing that? And you know, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 16:37

Well, what happens is you start shoving a strategy down her throat. Yep, and that's but not what she needs, or you're at least you're trying to formulate one that she can take to Sally. Yeah. And she's like, I don't, I just need to sit and feel this for a moment.

SPEAKER_00: 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:48

And as a man, you're like, what are you talking about? Why would you ever want to feel that? Like just get just you know, get fix it, right? And so a buddy of mine said this analogy, which I think is brilliant. Sometimes that male expression, um, when they come home and they have to sort of listen to maybe it's their daughter or their wife, you know, struggling with something, but yet not being able to fix it. They feel like you're it's like you're standing in front of a house that's up in flames, and you got this fire hose that's fully charged, and you gotta just keep it turned off and just watch the house burn. Yes. That's sometimes what it feels like, right?

SPEAKER_00: 17:21

That's funny. That's a good analogy.

SPEAKER_01: 17:23

Yeah. So what happens is there's this big disconnect, right? And so the husband feels like, man, I am so uh a man's two greatest needs are to feel respected and to feel competent. Okay. So what happens is when the wife feels unheard or unloved or unseen, she starts to make, she starts to say things like, Well, you're not hearing me. What are you, a robot? Like, what's wrong with you? Why don't you talk about your feelings, whatever? And you start to feel incompetent as a man in the house or as a husband. And so what happens? Because we're driven by accomplishments, by tangible, tactical things. We can't quantify what success looks like at home. It's much harder, right? Like I tell my tell my clients all the time, you're never gonna come home and your six-year-old son is not gonna be like, hey, daddy, here are five reasons why you're a an effective father. You know, like he's just not gonna do that, right? But when you go to work, oh, you get performance bonuses, you close this many contracts, revenue is up last quarter. Very easy to quantify, very easy to wrap strategies around it. So at work, you're like, I know I'm being successful, I know I'm competent, and I'm usually respected by my colleagues or my boss or whatever. But when you come home, all those lines get blurry.

SPEAKER_00: 18:33

Oh, yeah, because you're not they're not gonna pat you on the back for come for being at work. Exactly. And I think sometimes that's what we look for. Like you know, you realize I just closed this much of a deal, you know. It doesn't really matter because they're that's not what they're worried about. And you come home all excited, yeah, and they don't and they don't care, and then they poo-poo the whole thing. The whole poo-poo, the whole thing, the poo-poo the whole thing. It's all done.

SPEAKER_01: 18:58

Yeah, exactly. Because that is not a value for her. It's actually fundamentally not how she's wired, and and that's by design, because her role and her responsibility is to be the nurturing, uh, caring, loving, supportive, emotional sort of part of that relationship. That's the um the being sense, right? Yes, and so that that creates that emotional safety in the home. And so she's actually wired like that for a reason. But if we're not aware of that, um, what happens is those two strengths, the masculine and the feminine, which are incredible strengths and both are needed, there's a reason why we have opposite polarities. Um, they we end up pinning them against each other and they end up pulling us apart. And so David Data says in his book, The Way of the Superior Man, he calls it the great masculine error. And he says, This great masculine error is that you will think, you think that someday you're gonna understand it, that one day you will understand your wife or you'll understand the feminine, you know. But the reality is the mech the the masculine will full forever be uh perplexed by the feminine, and the feminine will be perplexed by the masculine until we understand how we're wired and how our strengths can serve one another. And so this is where this tension comes from, Brad. Why you you feel like such a success at at work and you come home and you don't even know where your place is. And when you do try and talk, you're like, you don't care what I'm talking about. And and the solutions I'm offering, you don't seem to want to hear. So what am I doing here? Because this is what I'm good at, right? Yeah, and you start to feel like an like a nuisance in your own home. Yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 20:40

Now, you you know, you you talk about all this stuff, okay? What what do you find to be the most challenging? Uh everything we just talked about. I love the honesty, dude. I love it. Because you know, we could all sit here. I mean, I you know, I I can sit here and tell people to like this is this is gonna be taken a different way. I'm a realtor. I can tell somebody all day, hey, if you're thinking about buying something, make sure you get pre-approved. I mean, why would you not do that? Well, my wife and I went to buy a place at the beach two years ago, found the place, and guess what we didn't have done? Pre-approval. So I'm rushing around getting a pre-approval. But what's funny is we sometimes we don't do what we tell others to do. But you know, you're obviously, you know, you're really uh on a high level with this stuff. So you is it's still always do you have to make it is it front of mind to think about, or has it become more natural to know how the difference between the masculine and feminine and know how why she's saying something a certain way or why why this there's an argument about this?

SPEAKER_01: 21:42

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's it I tell you what, um there's no uh it there's just skills that need to be developed. You need to have somebody that puts this in front of you, but you need to practice it, yeah, right. So a lot of my clients are like, they'll come to me like, man, I totally blew it again. You know, I'm like, well, hey, how many times did you lose your cool this week? You know, and they're like, Well, four. I'm like, well, four is better than seven because last week you were doing it every single day. That's a significant improvement. But the reality is, and the challenging part about this is the only time you get to practice is when you're in the middle of the moment, right? And that's why it gets so difficult. And so we gotta understand you're what you know. I can teach you skills and tools and frameworks on how to catch yourself in the moment. And I'd love to teach some of those in our conversation today to help your listeners. But at the end of the day, there is there is this is a skill that we have to develop because generally speaking, men really struggle with their emotions, they really struggle with with even understanding what's going on. Uh, and because and but we're also married to emotional wizards, uh, women who just like they were raised with it, right? And and it's an interesting term that I'll share with you. It's a bit of a mouthful, but it's called normative male alexathymia. Okay, now this is a psychological term that has been coined to explain this phenomenon, okay? So the term alexathymia actually its roots come from the Greek, okay? So the the word a means lack or without, and then the word thymos means without emotion or feelings. And so when you put uh and then thymos or sorry, thymos means without emotions, and so when you put the words alexithymia together, it means a lack of words for emotion. So what this means is when men are pressed to talk about their feelings, or when they're asked, well, what do you feel? or what and this is why we struggle so much in traditional therapy, it's because we we've been raised in a culture where we're actually uncomfortable talking about our emotions. And even if we did, we wouldn't necessarily have the words to talk about it. And so we marry very emotional beings who are very in tune with their emotions and they want to be connected with, but we literally don't have the words for it often. So what I do a lot of the times is I just teach men how to understand their emotions, talk about them, you know, and communicate them clearly because what happens is the reality is men have just as many emotions as men women, but we don't recognize them and talk about them or understand them. And so they bottle up, bottle up, and all of a sudden, boom, they snap because we're we're also masculine, so we can be aggressive, and that it becomes the only outlet. We either snap or we shut down. Both are not great options in a healthy marriage, right? Definitely not. And so that's that's what I would say is is it's a matter of learning these skills and then practicing them over time. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: 24:36

Makes a lot of sense. And the other thing, too, is I think, you know, I I was married once before. So one one of the things that I learned, I think anybody that goes through a divorce or anybody who goes through any kind of a relationship complete breakup um needs to understand it. I always said to people, I was 100% responsible just as she was a hundred percent responsible for us separating or getting divorced. And one of the things is that there's there's usually cues, there's usually hints, there's usually little things that they drop out there that as me as a guy didn't pick up on the cues. You know what I mean? Just didn't pick up on them. And I'll never forget when she did when she said she was leaving. I'll never forget going, Oh, that's what that meant. Oh, I remember that she said this. You start to realize that there was all kinds of clues and and out there, but we're not built to pick that stuff up. You know, we're just not. And and it did make me a better person to be married to now. You know, I think it's a lot of it is just learning about yourself and learning that, you know, you need to listen to these things. You need to listen to when people say that they're that you work too much, that maybe that means you work too much. Um, you know, it's not just a complaint, it's it's it's a it's something they're feeling. Um, so yeah, it's it's uh you know, it's interesting how those things work with with uh with relationships. But luckily you were able to save your relationship, which is great.

SPEAKER_01: 26:04

Yeah, and I'll tell you what, Brad, that's uh the you know, you talk about how we miss things.

SPEAKER_00: 26:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:09

Uh that's by design, because we're we're created to be able to compartmentalize. We're created to be able to let go and oversee and contain thoughts and move forward because we need to in order to be productive. We need to in order to press forward. And and we've been literally built, not just physically stronger, but emotionally stronger in the sense of we can compartmentalize, let things go, um, so that we can bear the weight for our families. We're designed to take the weight, not just physically, but you know, emotionally and all those different things. So, guys letting things go, that's actually part of our design. Yeah, but and so it's not a bad thing, but we have to learn how to bridge that gap, right? And what you're saying is so key because there's a statistic, and this is part of the reason why I launched this whole movement, was because in the United States today, we know that seven out of every ten divorces are initiated by the women in the relationship.

SPEAKER_00: 27:02

Wow, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01: 27:03

Now, and it gets crazier. In a situation where the wife is a high earner or she's got an education, that number goes to nine out of ten divorces are initiated by women. 90% of divorces are initiated by women. And of those 90%, 80% of the time the divorce is initiated. The reason cited is because they feel disconnected emotionally from their husband. Unbelievable. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_00: 27:29

Yeah, right there it is. So that's why I talk so much about the emotions. Yeah, I mean, and it's the proof is in the in the statistics. I mean, there right there it is. It's incredible. And what's funny you said about the high when the woman, when the woman is is the high earner, whatever, it didn't change, it made it worse. Is that is that right?

SPEAKER_01: 27:45

Yeah, because now she doesn't she the reason why some women stay in into in a relationship where they're maybe unhappy is because a lot of times is because the man is the primary uh you know provider. Yeah, and so um I get a lot of women follow me on Instagram, and sometimes they'll message me and be like, my if my husband didn't make so much money, I'd leave him.

SPEAKER_00: 28:05

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01: 28:06

Dude, I got a message like that earlier this morning. It's real. Yeah, and so that's why women who get the education and earn higher amounts, they don't need the man anymore for that piece, right? Yeah, and so this should be a screaming amber flash to any man listening, because this happens every single day. And and I would say, Brad, like 70% of my clients who come to me say, I just woke up one day and my wife just threatened divorce. And I had no idea what was going on.

SPEAKER_00: 28:37

I thought we were fine. That was my story. That what the last with the with the marriage before. It was out of nowhere. Just um, I'll never forget. She said, Um, uh, I need to, I need to get away. I said, What do you what do you want to get? What do you mean? We just got back from vacation. We why do you need to get away again? We had no children. And she goes, No, I need to get away from you. I'm like, Oh, that's a that's a real tough one to take. Yeah, a little ego shot there. Uh, but yeah, it's it's it's an interesting, but like I said, you learn I learned so much from that. Learned so much, you know. And unfortunately, I had to go through that. But you know, I also have an amazing wife now and two kids, so everything's kind of meant to happen in life.

SPEAKER_01: 29:14

Well, yeah, and you're better for it, right?

SPEAKER_00: 29:15

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 29:17

Um, if you if you're interested, I'd be happy to share uh a framework that I use with my one-to-one clients that can help. Absolutely. Awesome. Okay, now if you're a man listening, this is gonna be hugely helpful for you. If you're a woman listening, this is still gonna be helpful because you can help your husband in this journey, okay? So it's called the Rise Conversation Ladder. And this is I want you to think about this as sort of like a ladder of like or rungs of a conversation, if you will, because a lot of these relationships, uh, a lot of marriages are starved for depth, right? Not because the husbands don't love their wives, but because they've forgotten how to talk to them, you know, in a in an emotional way. And so the the reality is, you know, we can build a bank account, we can create a life schedule, um, but still feel like strangers passing in the hallway. So this this framework is simple enough to remember on your worst day and powerful enough to change the way you connect forever. So uh the word rise, obviously it's four letters, R-I-S-E, stands for the four different steps. Okay, so the first step is R, which stands for routine. Okay. Now, this is the surface level of conversation. Okay, this is the base level. This is the small talk that you get into that that runs the house, but never actually impacts the heart, right? So questions that would be in this routine level are what time are you coming home? Uh, did you pay the water bill? What's for dinner? Right now, these questions matter, but they're just at a functional level. But your marriage isn't in an operations department. Right. It's a covenant. It's a bond.

SPEAKER_00: 30:53

Sometimes it feels like it with kids. I mean, right?

SPEAKER_01: 30:56

Hundred percent. Yeah. Um, but this is why couples end up feeling like just really great roommates because the conversations are just reminders, they're errands, their schedules, all that stuff, right? So the next step to it is information. This is the next layer or next layer deeper. And this is where you move from transactions to facts about your world, okay? Slightly deeper. So questions that are in the information level are what happened at work, right? Uh, what did the teacher say at that parent-teacher meeting? Or what did your mom want when she called? Uh, how did that project wrap up? Now, at this level, you could think of you're exchanging news headlines from your day. It's better than nothing, but again, you're still reporting news, not revealing anything, right? So, but here you can think about this as being the on-ramp, not the final destination. This is where most guys fall off the map, right here. They don't go further. Okay, and there's a reason why.

SPEAKER_00: 31:56

And this is where we normally say, What do you mean? We just had we just talked yesterday about this. Or of course we talked. We had a great conversation about your mom. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 32:07

So the third, the third level here is is S, and that stands for story. And this is where the walls start to crack open. Okay, so story moves beyond from beyond what happened to how it impacted her. Okay. This begins to pull emotions into those facts. This is where trust and empathy starts to grow. So, examples of story-based questions would be how did that how did that meeting make you feel? Right? What was the hardest part of your day today? Not, hey, how was your day? What was the hardest part, right? Another great question is what do you wish I understood better about you that you're dealing with? What's something that you're dealing with now that you that you wish I would understand more of, right? This is where uh you kind of have to drop your guard. And it gives her permission to drop hers too. Now, this is interesting because there was a clinical psychologist named Dr. Sue Johnson. She's written some brilliant stuff. She found that when couples regularly share feelings, not just facts, their sense of emotional safety increases by 80%. But here's why men kind of shy away from this. Because when when she starts talking about her feelings, you start to feel like you need to fix it. But you can't fix it, right? Because that's a feeling, and so you start to get uncomfortable. And what she wants you to do is hear her feelings without flinching. So it gets a little bit like I don't want to hear about how she's upset because now, but but because my hands are gonna be tied, right? I can't fix it. The second, the fourth level, which is the deepest level, is E, and that stands for essence. Okay, this is where intimacy is born in a in a relationship when it comes to connecting with our wife. This is about meaning. Okay, this is the inner world where few people ever get invited to. This is where her fears live, this is where her spiritual questions live, where her wildest dreams live. So examples of essence-based questions will be what's something that's been on your heart or your mind lately that you haven't said out loud? I mean, it's a deep question, right? And we wouldn't naturally think to ask that.

SPEAKER_02: 34:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 34:17

Um, or what's one thing that you're believing for or that you're praying for that you haven't told me? Or another one might be, what dream keeps tugging at you that you wish we talk about more? And one of my favorites is what's one thing you'd love for our family to do, be, or see in the next five years? I'm throwing a lot at you, but this level is exactly what your wife wanted when she said, I want to feel close to you. If you've ever heard her say, I feel like you're I've married a robot, or you never talk about your feelings, or we don't talk like we used to. This is the stuff that she's craving. And the the payoff here is real, obviously, but so is the risk, right? Because going here means that she's gonna share fears, again, that you can't fix. She might share dreams that she has, like she wants to live in some beautiful house on the beach or whatever, and you're like, Well, I can't, I can't afford that right now, right? And then you start kind of strategizing or whatever, and it feels overwhelming, but that's okay because you're not supposed to be her savior, you're just supposed to be her safe place, right? And that's that's the reality, is you need to be able to sit and listen. And so, a real example, a real simple example of how this conversation could go. Say, for example, you guys get a sitter and you're getting ready to go out on a date night or something, or go out to a friend's house for a party. Yeah, you're getting ready, and then the the routine level question would be, what time are we leaving for the party? Basic level, right? Inform uh that's that's just like normal routine question. The information level question is who's all gonna be there? Right now we're just exchanging information. Second level, or the third sorry story is do you feel excited or anxious about seeing them? How do you feel about seeing all your friends? You see how we're getting into the emotions here, right? And then the essence level question is what do you hope happens there tonight that will make you feel more connected to them or to me or to whatever, right? Deeper, deeper, deeper, right? So this is kind of how that works, and so I share all that to say it's so so important because, like I said, 80% of the time initi uh divorces are initiated is because the wife feels disconnected emotionally from the man, and that's significant. There's a quote from David White, he's a poet and a philosopher, and he says the conversation is the relationship.

SPEAKER_00: 36:39

Yeah, I heard that before.

SPEAKER_01: 36:40

Yeah, I saw that quote.

SPEAKER_00: 36:42

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01: 36:43

It's a good one. And that's the thing. If you want to know the health of your marriage, look at the quality of your conversations. You think about it, Brad. Yeah, if you never ever talk to your kids, what kind of relationship would you have? Or if you never said, Hey, how are you doing? How is your day? You know, and you just say, did you take did you bring the bike in? You know, did you do the chore? Did you what kind of relationship would you have? It would have crumbled pretty quick, right? Sure, yeah. But we do the same thing in marriage all the time. And so what happens is you might even you might even go out on a date, but you don't talk about anything other than the schedule. And what happens is your date nights feel like board meetings, yeah. Just with a bit of wine, maybe.

SPEAKER_00: 37:21

Yeah, what I mean. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 37:23

No, it's untrue. That's and that's what happens, is and then we'll we'll go out on a limb and we'll say, No, no, I'm gonna plan a date. And we go out on the date, but we ask the same dead end questions, and then and and everything falls flat, and we both go home feeling unfulfilled, and then we get frustrated and we say things, well, I'm trying, I keep trying. I went out on a date. Well, okay, but what did you do on that date? Did you connect with her on an emotional level, or did you just treat her like a like an employee?

SPEAKER_00: 37:49

Yeah, right. Does that make sense? Yeah, it totally makes sense. And we do date nights uh when we when we can with kids. Do you find, and then we're gonna have to wrap this up soon, but do you find that obviously what I I feel this way? Your relationship before you have kids is one thing, and then after you have kids, it it is it adds a completely different element, I feel, to the your relationship. Because I I I always say um I say this a lot, and my wife can't stand it, but when I say it, but is the you know there's two people there's my wife and there's the mother of my children. And they are it it just they're just different, they're just a different people. Um and I don't know how else to say it, um, but that's the way I feel. I love both of them. They just react in different ways, you know, and and I think that's a one of the challenges. I think that's why a lot of times when people have children, they end up getting divorced because they can't keep they can't keep their they can't see their wife anymore. They just see the mother of the children. And that is not what you married. You married your wife. And uh, I don't know if you ever hear that or or or if that comes up or ever, but and I think that's that's uh it's important that you gotta keep that unit needs to still be solid in order for there to be a good foundation for the family, too.

SPEAKER_01: 39:11

Yeah, well, 100% because what happens is the wife begins to feel like a mom because that's what she is most of the day, and she forgets what it's she forgets what it feels like to be a bride. I love the word bride. Yeah, bride. It's like beautiful, right? And so what happens is she she's she's a mom all day, and you come home and you you kind of end up sort of she's in mom mode, and you never ever take her out of that mom mode, right? You never remind her about the fact that she's a beautiful woman, that she's your bride, that she's your wife, that you love, that you cherish. And so, and then also, you know, depending on how you show up a man, which as a man, which we could talk about in another time, but um, we the wife ends up treating us like uh like another child because we're sort of acting like we're we're not taking full responsibility, we're not showing up, we're not, you know what I mean? Sure, and so she ends up becoming sort of both mother and father and starts treating us like a child, right? And so and I did a podcast episode about this a little while ago. I call and it was called When Your Wife Becomes Your Mom. And this happens all the time. Yeah, you can see that. Okay, yeah, and so I say this all the time and it gets me in trouble. But people will ask me, What do you want your son to know um about you? Um, and I say, I want him to know that he's number two. And they're like, What you can't say. So good. I'm like, absolutely, I can say that. Because it's my responsibility to show him that he's number two because I need to model what a great relationship is. Because if he's got any shot at honoring and cherishing a woman one day when he grows up, then he needs to see that modeled for him. And our marriage is his first classroom on relationships. So true. So the first thing I need to do is honor her first. She needs to be the priority, and this is the problem we get into is we put all the focus on the kids. I can't tell you how many men have come to me and that I've coached and they've said, uh, I feel like my wife cares more about the kids than I than me. Wow. And that's a fair thing. That's understandable. But again, going back to our feminine feminine nature, nurturing, caring for the relationship, caring for her children, it's just huge. But we need to understand how to communicate these feelings because if we don't, we get caught up in all these traps, right? And it's all of great intent. But if we don't know how to communicate through these challenges, this is where we run into problems, right? So I would uh commend you in saying that. Yeah, you're right, man. There's your wife, and there's the the mother of your children. And it's important that you treat her as your bride, as your as her wife, because it's important that she feels like a woman, uh, a sought-after, honored, cherished, attractive woman from time to time because she can forget what that feels like too.

SPEAKER_00: 41:49

Absolutely, absolutely. Boy, it's just such good stuff, man. So good. There's a good there's a really good uh episode here. Um, just some some things real quick before we wrap up. Um, I love this. There were two quotes that that you had put on Instagram that I just wanted to bring up. It hit me, and I wanted to say uh just the one was uh for couples unspoken expectations are the fastest way to breed resentment. Your spouse isn't a psychic, they need your voice, not your silence. I love that. Very good. And then the other one, this was good. This has more to do with kids. This one almost teared me up when I was reading it the first time. Um, every bedtime story, every hug, every encouragement, every I love you is an investment in their identity. Stay focused, stay present. Awesome, awesome, awesome stuff. You're you're you're writing some amazing things. Uh, anybody that goes to Instagram and reads through your quotes that you have and all the different messages in there, I think you will look inward at yourself when you read the quotes and you'll you'll see yourself in those quotes of either A, needing work with those quotes, uh, or or B, yeah, yeah, this is how I I do things. Um, but it's it's all good stuff. And I and I really, really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us today because uh it was awesome. So tell me how do we get in touch with you and tell me uh, you know, they can they can uh hire you as a coach to help out with their relationships and their life and so and whatnot, right?

SPEAKER_01: 43:12

Yeah, yeah, of course. Can can I give you guys your listeners a free gift before we jump out?

SPEAKER_00: 43:16

Absolutely, you can. We love free gifts. Free gifts are good.

SPEAKER_01: 43:20

Awesome. Well, I have something called uh just called the connection code. It's 50 questions designed to spark the fun and bring the fire back. Now, by now, this part this long in the conversation, you shouldn't be questioning why it's important to connect with your wife on an emotional level. But this is legitimately, man, 50 questions that are designed to cover everything from your dreams, your your life, your hopes, passion, intimacy, you name it. And the only rule is when you take your wife out on a date, or maybe you put down the kids and you pour up a glass of wine, the only thing you can ask her that night are questions from this list. And it's totally free. And if you go to dadnationco.com forward slash code, or I'll give you the link and you can put it in the show notes. But just download it. I'm handing it to you on a silver platter. I get I get women emailing me all the time, being like, who was that man that took me out on a date? Because he was asking me questions that's just turned me straight on. You know what I mean? That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00: 44:13

Well, I think what we'll do is we're gonna have you back for sure. And um, yeah, I think that's great because there's so much more we didn't talk about. I have more notes on here. It's probably one of the the podcasts for in a long time that I have more notes than I wanted to talk about that we didn't get to. So it'll be good to get to that. But what else also? So your dad nation, uh it's dadnationco.com is the website, correct? Or is it yeah, dadnationco.com. Yeah, there we go. And then uh the dadnation podcast, which we can find what? Spotify?

SPEAKER_01: 44:40

Yeah, I tell you what, if you just Google Dad Nation, you'll you'll feel busted around everywhere. But I do three things, and I'll say this real quick, I keep it real simple. I do content, courses, and coaching. Okay, so the content is just um the podcast, all that stuff. I have some online courses you could do called the high performance husband, and then the coaching, which is the dad nation coalition. But either way, man, whether it's free or you want some one-to-one service to walk alongside you as a coach, I'm here to support you, serve you any way I know how.

SPEAKER_00: 45:08

Awesome, man. It's awesome. Great stuff. I I love it, I love it. Thanks so much for coming on the show. We'll see you hopefully again uh in the next year.

SPEAKER_01: 45:15

Brad, listen, it's been a pleasure and an honor, my friend.

SPEAKER_00: 45:17

Let's do it again. Sounds good. All right, take care. All right, my goodness, Mitchell Osman, the Dad Nation from Canada. Man, I'll tell you what, what an incredible show. That was really good. I mean, there's so much content there. I'm actually afraid for my wife to listen to this show. I'm a little nervous. I'm worried about what's going on. I'm a better husband now, a better father, too. Exactly. All right, that's about it. Thanks for watching the show every Thursday, 7 p.m. We will see you again next week. All right, that's about it.